Avenue Verte/Tour de La Manche ('Franco-British Cycle Plan')

[andym]

People who get snooty about off-road cycle paths please look away now.

Saw an article about this in the Independent. Plan for a cycle route between London and Paris and another for a circular route going through Dover-Calais and Newhaven-Dieppe. Planned to be full open for 2012.

According to the East Sussex Council website page (talking about the Avenue Verte):

On the English side, the route would mainly follow the National Cycle Network (NCN) Route 21 between London and the South coast. In East Sussex, the Avenue Verte includes the Cuckoo Trail and Forest Way, providing over 30km of traffic-free cycling, walking and horse riding along former railway lines.

South of Polegate, the route would continue to Newhaven as National Cycle Network (NCN) Route 2, along the South coast, into West Sussex to the West and Kent to the East.

North of East Sussex, the route would follow NCN 21 through West Sussex, Surrey and into London. Here, the route would pass through several boroughs before coming to an end at St Paul's Cathedral.

In France, the Avenue Verte follows the former Dieppe to Paris railway for 40km. It currently stops just outside Forge-Les-Eaux but once complete, the route will extend to Paris almost entirely on traffic-free routes.

The likely end point in Paris will be Notre Dame.

Video here.

Website here although to be honest it's not very interesting.

I've uploaded a screenshot of the map, but you can download the pdf from here.

Oh, and to give credit where it's due, it's been made possible by EU funding.

 

[raindog]

Fabulous project - that's the way forward.

 

[ASC1951]

it's been made possible by EU funding.

So apart from the roads, the sewers, peace, a stable currency etc etc, what have the EU ever done for us?

 

[Crankarm]

If it's anything like Eurostar when it first opened, the British section will be embarrassing. Once across the channel (what cycle straight through ?) on the French side it will no doubt be bliss you'll be able to put the hammer down so to speak without enocuntering crappy UK cycle paths. Mind it will be a disappointment arriving from France.

 

[BalkanExpress]

So apart from the roads, the sewers, peace, a stable currency etc etc, what have the EU ever done for us?

How about http://www.danubebybike.eu/

 

[andym]

If it's anything like Eurostar when it first opened, the British section will be embarrassing. Once across the channel (what cycle straight through :arrow:?) on the French side it will no doubt be bliss you'll be able to put the hammer down so to speak without enocuntering crappy UK cycle paths. Mind it will be a disappointment arriving from France.

Erm the work done by Sustrans and others to convert disused railway lines has actually been the inspiration for initiatives in France, Spain and elsewhere. Knowing a number of the cycle paths on this circuit, I think the UK side will be fine.

 

[Brains]

Like a lot of British inventions, it's Johnny Foreigner, that develops the idea to it's full potential and then exports it back to us

Having done a lot of cycling in northern Europe I'm afraid I agree, the UK side will be an embarrassment when compared to the French side

 

[rich p]

Well the Polegate to Newhaven section will be interesting!

From memory the Cuckoo trail isn't all suitable for road bikes either.

 

[Arch]

If it's anything like Eurostar when it first opened, the British section will be embarrassing. Once across the channel (what cycle straight through ?) on the French side it will no doubt be bliss you'll be able to put the hammer down so to speak without enocuntering crappy UK cycle paths. Mind it will be a disappointment arriving from France.

I've ridden the Avenue Verte, and yes, it's lovely. I would quarrel with 'putting the hammer down', depending on the day and time - at the weekend there are lots of families with kids on bikes, dog walkers, skaters, all the stuff you have to watch out for, and it's unsegregated shared use. Also, wherever a road crosses the path, at what would have been a level crossing, you are supposed to stop, and you have to at the very least, slow down and look both ways, although the roads are usually very minor ones, and you rarely need to wait for cross traffic.

But it shouldn't be about putting the hammer down. The joy is the smooth surface, the happy smiling other users, the proximity of villages with cafes...

We rode it in a pack of 8 recumbents, and it's a lovely introduction to riding in France. I look forward to it going all the way to Paris. But then riding in France is a joy anyway, compared to over here.

 

[andym]

Like a lot of British inventions, it's Johnny Foreigner, that develops the idea to it's full potential and then exports it back to us

Having done a lot of cycling in northern Europe I'm afraid I agree, the UK side will be an embarrassment when compared to the French side

Oh I'm sorry, but what utter what rubbish. I'm as much of a francophile as anyone, but I really don't understand why the British chattering classes seem to have this bizarre inferiority complex about France and cycling in France. The responses to this thread demonstrate as knee-jerk reaction of trashing Britain that honestly makes me cringe. I'm no xenophobe: I'm proud to consider myself a European but I'm also proud to be British and I think there are a lot of things that are pretty cool about being British and about Britain. Sorry if that's a bit of a minority viewpoint.

I can only speak from my perception and experience, but actually provision for cycling is better over here than in France: just take as a for instance cycle parking - try finding decent cycle parking in France - you'll be lucky if you find one of those stands you can put your front wheel into. Secure? I think not.

And I know we (rightly) give our train companies a hard time about provision for cycling, but it's way better over here than in France, Italy or Spain.

And as for the Cuckoo Trail not being suitable for road bikes? I'm getting old, so my memory is getting a bit sketchy, so I did a quick search in Google Images (OK not necessarily very representative) here are some of the the results:

http://woodsidehall-nh.com/local/cuckoo-trail.jpg

OK so there's muck on one of the stretches and leaves on one of the others, and perhaps I'm looking at things as someone who considers himself a mountainbiker who also rides road bikes - but surely there's nothing here even the most fussy roadie couldn't cope with.

But yes, I have to admit that when it comes to whining, complaining, and whinging Britain still seems to be a world leader. Proud to be British? Well most of the time I am, but frankly sometimes I despair.

 

[rich p]

Well the Polegate to Newhaven section will be interesting!

From memory the Cuckoo trail isn't all suitable for road bikes either.

Whoa, down boy!

My point was that the idea that there is an avenue-verte between Polegate and Newhaven is far from the truth.

If you read carefully I have said that not all of the Cuckoo trail is suitable for road bikes - some is and some isn't.

Hardly contentious.

I have cycled the Dieppe section and it is a far superior ride to the cuckoo trail, which is the point others may have been trying to make.

 

[Crankarm]

Victor Meldrew would have been proud of andym's rant. Has he been taking lessons ?

I seem to remember some months ago andym posting details of a voieverte going south from St. Malo for km after km which looked like cycling heaven. So on the strength of this and some of cycle routes I have ridden around Rouen plus the fiasco of the Eurostar once it hit the UK side trundling along behind slow commuter trains, I drew the obvious conclusion that the British side in comparison will be crap.

We might have invented the railways but it is everyone else who has made them work the French and Japanese probably the best examples of decent rail networks.

So watch this space ........

 

[raindog]

. I'm as much of a francophile as anyone, but I really don't understand why the British chattering classes seem to have this bizarre inferiority complex about France and cycling in France.

Niether do I

 

[rich p]

Niether do I

Possibly because the car drivers in France are so much more careful and considerate towards cyclists. There is also a lot more room in France with a larger country and a similar population.

 

[Arch]

Possibly because the car drivers in France are so much more careful and considerate towards cyclists. There is also a lot more room in France with a larger country and a similar population.

That is the very best thing for me. Any bad driving around cyclists over there will almost certainly be a car with GB plates... Also, if a bystander shouts something it will be 'bonjour!', or 'Allez!' or 'Chapeau!', as opposed to the normal UK "f***ing poof!" or highly eloquent "Woarorororoaaoraooraa", usually accompanied by a leap into your path to make you swerve.

On the subject of cyclepaths, I can compare the current 30 miles of the Avenue Verte (all smooth, road quality tarmac) with the York-Selby Cyclepath, which manages to run for about 5 miles as tarmac and then reverts to rather lumpy hard packed gravel, ending in a gate too narrow to negociate in the saddle unless you are very confident.