BBC Breakfast item today on illegally modded ebikes

[Drago]

Indeed. Unless specifically trained and qualified, the only two things upon which an officer give a valid opinion of in court is drunkenness and identifying cannabis.

I expect some clever dick defence solicitors have challenged the perception of distances involved based on pure judgement (although a magistrate always has the discretion to view footage and decide for themselves, but rarely do) and technical analysis of footage is a couple of grand a time since the government abolished the Forensic Sceince Service.

So as above, without aggravating circumstances or an inarguable means of assessing distances involved its pointless wasting resources putting them before a court.

Trust me, immsure the dibble would very much like to, but you gotta know when to hold and when to fold.

 

[Binky]

Indeed. Unless specifically trained and qualified, the only two things upon which an officer give a valid opinion of in court is drunkenness and identifying cannabis.

I expect some clever dick defence solicitors have challenged the perception of distances involved based on pure judgement (although a magistrate always has the discretion to view footage and decide for themselves, but rarely do) and technical analysis of footage is a couple of grand a time since the government abolished the Forensic Sceince Service.

So as above, without aggravating circumstances or an inarguable means of assessing distances involved its pointless wasting resources putting them before a court.

Trust me, immsure the dibble would very much like to, but you gotta know when to hold and when to fold.

I was told it's all down to the Forensic Regulator, the sergeant I spoke to(he contacted me about a case I'd reported) he suspected what had happened is someone had taken an expert in as defence and so because of that Op Snap have been told to not take action on mere close passes as they are not sufficiently qualifed to judge distances from a video. Seems ridiculous as the width of a road is a known figure, the width of a car also is so it should be easy to say if road is 3.0m wide from centre line to inside line and a car is 2.0m wide and the cyclist is 0.5m to right of inside line then said overtaking car is 0.5m from cyclist. But apparently not!

 

[Drago]

Yep. Its efen more ridiculous that the magistrate so rarely makes their own judgement from visual evidence. Its easy to see ifmits a close pass, or if the suspect in the dock is the same one from the photo, and with three of them theres ample scope for veto, but they so rarely choose to decide for themselves.

As usual the system is ready to subvert to favour the criminal.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

This ebike was "advertised" as a deal on hotukdeals over the weekend.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0F1Y6N1YJ

Except, it looks like it has a full power throttle mode option.

 

[Binky]

Yep. Its efen more ridiculous that the magistrate so rarely makes their own judgement from visual evidence. Its easy to see ifmits a close pass, or if the suspect in the dock is the same one from the photo, and with three of them theres ample scope for veto, but they so rarely choose to decide for themselves.

As usual the system is ready to subvert to favour the criminal.

As it happens tomorrow is the day I'm in court as a witness to a close overtake I reported. The defendant pleaded not guilty to first hearing so this time I have to go in and give evidence. I'm still puzzled as to what defence they will have as the video is very clear and shows car very close to me with another coming in opposite direction.

 

[Drago]

They're trying to play the system hoping you or a key investigator etc wont turn up. Solicitor love that besause they get another payday.

Best of luck. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[classic33]

He didn't say anything about "legal ebikes being seized", just that it is only people who stop willingly whose bikes are being seized.

However, a few posts above your reply(Which I'm quoting) is proof that not all riders that get caught, even want to stop.

 

[Alex321]

The legal / illegal "ebike" confusion in press coverage would be simplified if legal "ebikes" were to correctly referred to by everyone as pedelecs leaving ebike solely to the illegal ones

Except that would confuse even more people, who would have no idea what a "pedelec" might be.

I'm also not quite sure why you think they would be "correctly" referred to as that, implying that e-bike is somehow incorrect?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Except that would confuse even more people, who would have no idea what a "pedelec" might be.

I'm also not quite sure why you think they would be "correctly" referred to as that, implying that e-bike is somehow incorrect?

It would be better if legal ebikes were referred to as something different to the illegal ones

it would stop people just thinking that people on an ebike are yobs and we all ride round wearing black and a mask at 30 mph ignoring red lights and every other part of the Highway Code

but it would require a concerted effort from all parties - including all parts of the press to start it off and make it normal

and I can;t see that coming up at the moment

if someone was caught driving a souped up car with zero safety features and number plates
then every article about it would be saying how bad it was and how it was illegal

an ebike - not always as much - although it does seem a bit better - sometimes

 

[classic33]

It would be better if legal ebikes were referred to as something different to the illegal ones

it would stop people just thinking that people on an ebike are yobs and we all ride round wearing black and a mask at 30 mph ignoring red lights and every other part of the Highway Code

but it would require a concerted effort from all parties - including all parts of the press to start it off and make it normal

and I can;t see that coming up at the moment

if someone was caught driving a souped up car with zero safety features and number plates
then every article about it would be saying how bad it was and how it was illegal

an ebike - not always as much - although it does seem a bit better - sometimes

Call them what the law classes them as, mopeds or motorbikes, albeit with an electric engine not petrol or diesel.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Just put of interest, how are sales of real electric motorbikes and mopeds doing? By which I mean the ones that don't pretend to be pushbikes, and that the owner taxes (if necessary), registers, insures and wears a mcycle helmet.

I don't think I've seen many around but then I haven't really been looking. Are ICE motorbikes facing much competition?

 

[Gwylan]

Eloped, electrically powered moped; then the moped would be renamed Petped
Same requirements regarding licences, road tax, insurance and where they can be ridden
Brommers and fietsen seems to work in Dutch speaking areas. Is that still the case?
Ah! But you need an identity card......

I can remember the time when bikes in Flanders had little registration plates. And the two police farces.

 

[classic33]

Just put of interest, how are sales of real electric motorbikes and mopeds doing? By which I mean the ones that don't pretend to be pushbikes, and that the owner taxes (if necessary), registers, insures and wears an mcycle helmet.

I don't think I've seen many around but then I haven't really been looking. Are ICE motorbikes facing much competition?

I know of one such e-bike near me.
Fully licenced and insured and MOT'd and the rider has sat a test. He moved from a motorbike(ICE to EV) partially because he liked the novelty and it was quieter.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I know of one such e-bike near me.
Fully licenced and insured and MOT'd and the rider has sat a test. He moved from a motorbike(ICE to EV) partially because he liked the novelty and it was quieter.

I don't know anything about motorbikes, but I'd imagine that e-motorbikes can be quite sprightly performance-wise. I'd imagine that they'd appeal to the same group of reckless young men who were forever crashing their bikes and ending up in A&E (and worse) who I knew when I was a youth.

 

[Binky]

They're trying to play the system hoping you or a key investigator etc wont turn up. Solicitor love that besause they get another payday.

Best of luck. Let us know how it turns out.

OK, so went to court and after waiting around an hour in witness room the prosecution solicitor comes in and says he changed plea to guilty so I wasn't required to give evidence. Apparently he did this on Friday so why they couldn't have told me to save trip is another matter! The whole process there though was really half arsed, not what I was expecting.

Anyway, the driver already had 9 points on licence and the court gave him another 6 totalling 15 and a fine/surcharge total of £943.
However, he pleaded exceptional hardship as needs car for driving wife/kids to appointments, school etc and so court accepted that so didnt ban him. An obvious repeat offender but no ban. Pretty lenient I thought.
After I was told not needed as witness I went into public gallery to watch. Driver was middle aged, quietly spoken and seemed a decent guy but fairly obvious not a great driver.