Benefits of shorter cranks

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GrandadPig

Regular
Location
Eye, Suffolk
As a bit of a numpty, I have nothing to add to the replies. However, on my “new to me” Anthrotech trike I seem to suffer from heel strike, where the heels of my SPD shoes hit the tarmac. Reading the replies above, I guess shorter cranks would solve this issue?

thanks

Steve
 

zoxed

Über Member
> suffer from heel strike, where the heels of my SPD shoes hit the tarmac. Reading the replies above, I guess shorter cranks would solve this issue?
Yes, short cranks would solve that. But also you may want to Google about midfoot cleat position, which may also fix it - I haven't tried it but some people swear by it!
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
As a bit of a numpty, I have nothing to add to the replies. However, on my “new to me” Anthrotech trike I seem to suffer from heel strike, where the heels of my SPD shoes hit the tarmac. Reading the replies above, I guess shorter cranks would solve this issue?

thanks

Steve
Blimey! How big are your feet? From my recollection, at least for the models that I have seen photos of, the Anthrotec is fairly high off the ground, Being somewhat of a twinkletoes myself I don't have much in the way of heel strike problems even on my SWB front wheel. Up to now I haven't needed to use clips as my feet just seem to stay put. Do your heels make contact on level tarmac or is it just if the surface is uneven?
 

simongt

Guru
Location
Norwich
A lot of bikes, particularily MTBs, come with 175mm cranks as 'standard' regardless of the size of the frame. The percieved 'rule of thumb' was the shorter your legs, in theory, the shorter the cranks should be. However, ride what suits you best. For road bikes, I believe it's 170mm as 'standard', MTBs, 175mm to give more leverage on the uphill bits. The GLW at 1.63m. tall prefers 165mm. cranks on all her bikes if they are available.
 

Sharky

Guru
Location
Kent
175mm to give more leverage
Crank length is just one variable in the gearing/leverage system on the bike.

Wheel size, chain wheel and sprockets as well as crank length make up the gearing.
Sheldon Brown gives a good explanation.
 

Arellcat

Well-Known Member
Location
Edinburgh
Longer cranks give better leverage for hill climbing with a slow cadence.
Shorter cranks makes it easier to spin along on the flat with high cadence.
If you suffer badly when hill climbing then shorter cranks will only make it worse.

As Sharky alluded to above, in respect of the entire drivetrain, these statements feel like they ought to be common sense, but they are not so much wrong as economical with the truth.

You can climb hills with whatever crank length you like, because you also select a gear ratio that matches your power output, and your cranks are, as a first approximation, designed for your leg length (and everyone else's leg length). This is why children's bikes come with short cranks and adult bikes come with long(er) cranks. Most adults are five or six feet tall which is why, with some allowance for greater or lesser bending of the legs because people can adapt, cranks have ended up at about 170mm.

You could fit a larger or smaller back wheel for climbing hills and it would have the same effect as changing gear. The difference between short and long cranks, once force at the pedal is accounted for through the drivetrain, is the rotational distance covered by your feet, and the amount of flexion incurred by your knees and hips. A smaller foot distance suits a higher cadence because short cranks reduce the linear travel of the mass of your legs, once your muscles are acclimatised to the higher cadence, otherwise your slow twitch fibres are firing too often and will tire. Power is torque times speed, so for the same power you can reduce the torque through your gearing and speed up your cadence, which is something every cyclist with gears will know about. But there is also a limit to what is comfortable and efficient to spin faster – foot distance coupled with leg length and leg mass; consider what 200mm cranks at 100rpm would feel like compared with 150mm at 100rpm. This is why shorter cranks geared correctly are better for you.
 
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As Sharky alluded to above, in respect of the entire drivetrain, these statements feel like they ought to be common sense, but they are not so much wrong as economical with the truth.

You can climb hills with whatever crank length you like, because you also select a gear ratio that matches your power output, and your cranks are, as a first approximation, designed for your leg length (and everyone else's leg length). This is why children's bikes come with short cranks and adult bikes come with long(er) cranks. Most adults are five or six feet tall which is why, with some allowance for greater or lesser bending of the legs because people can adapt, cranks have ended up at about 170mm.

You could fit a larger or smaller back wheel for climbing hills and it would have the same effect as changing gear. The difference between short and long cranks, once force at the pedal is accounted for through the drivetrain, is the rotational distance covered by your feet, and the amount of flexion incurred by your knees and hips. A smaller foot distance suits a higher cadence because short cranks reduce the linear travel of the mass of your legs, once your muscles are acclimatised to the higher cadence, otherwise your slow twitch fibres are firing too often and will tire. Power is torque times speed, so for the same power you can reduce the torque through your gearing and speed up your cadence, which is something every cyclist with gears will know about. But there is also a limit to what is comfortable and efficient to spin faster – foot distance coupled with leg length and leg mass; consider what 200mm cranks at 100rpm would feel like compared with 150mm at 100rpm. This is why shorter cranks geared correctly are better for you.
I agree.
If you don't run out of gears down then shorter cranks may well give you an overall bio-mechanical advantage.
The better you can spin, keep a light constant pressure on the pedal no matter what your cadence is, then the better they will suit that style of riding.
But it's more normal to run out of gears down on hills and you end up grinding your way up.
Now it's a question does the bio-mechanical advantage of shorter cranks on the flat outweigh the straight up mechanical disadvantage of them on the hills.
The 170-175 crank length was standardized in an era where you did run out of gears down.
Now with ultra low gears due to sub compact doubles/dinner plate sprockets you don't run out of gears as often on hills so I wonder if the next best thing for your bike will be shorter cranks ......... :hyper:

Luck ........... ^_^
 
I’ve posted on this before in various boards, (and after this I’ll probably give up! 🤪) but:

To me, discussions of the leverage of short vs long cranks always miss two essential parts of the system: the tibia and the femur.

Try this thoughtexperiment (not for real kids, cos it might fall on you!): You have manoeuvred a heavy chest of drawers into place against a wall, but there are still a few inches to go. So you lie on your back on the floor with your feet against the base of it and shove. Which will be easier: starting with knees bent at an acute angle, or with your butt further out and knees just a few inches above the floor?

To save you taking the risk I have tried it myself and it is definitely the latter.

Coming back to bikes, the biggest effect of varying crank length is to vary the knee angle during the push phase of pedal rotation. (The precise effect will vary depending on your upper and lower leg dimensions.) This is why, despite many sages advising to the contrary, changing bottom end gearing to accommodate the supposed lesser leverage of shorter cranks is rarely necessary. While taken as a stand-alone component, a shorter crank certainly has less leverage, for a significant number of cyclists the short crank will increase the leverage of the leg bones and muscles to a greater extent than any loss at the crank itself.

This leads to the admittedly counter-intuitive situation that shortening the cranks increases leverage -in the system as a whole.

I have always changed my recumbents to 155 cranks. It has never required a change in low end gearing
 
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grldtnr

grldtnr

Senior Member
I’ve posted on this before in various boards, (and after this I’ll probably give up! 🤪) but:

To me, discussions of the leverage of short vs long cranks always miss two essential parts of the system: the tibia and the femur.

Try this thoughtexperiment (not for real kids, cos it might fall on you!): You have manoeuvred a heavy chest of drawers into place against a wall, but there are still a few inches to go. So you lie on your back on the floor with your feet against the base of it and shove. Which will be easier: starting with knees bent at an acute angle, or with your butt further out and knees just a few inches above the floor?

To save you taking the risk I have tried it myself and it is definitely the latter.

Coming back to bikes, the biggest effect of varying crank length is to vary the knee angle during the push phase of pedal rotation. (The precise effect will vary depending on your upper and lower leg dimensions.) This is why, despite many sages advising to the contrary, changing bottom end gearing to accommodate the supposed lesser leverage of shorter cranks is rarely necessary. While taken as a stand-alone component, a shorter crank certainly has less leverage, for a significant number of cyclists the short crank will increase the leverage of the leg bones and muscles to a greater extent than any loss at the crank itself.

This leads to the admittedly counter-intuitive situation that shortening the cranks increases leverage -in the system as a whole.

I have always changed my recumbents to 155 cranks. It has never required a change in low end gearing
So, what your saying is shorter cranks work best for recumbenteers, my lower limbs seem of a similar propertion , ( my shin bone, connected to my knee bone, connected to my thigh bone, connected to my hip bone,.......

Shorter cranks make in spin easier, therefore in theory, makes it easier to pedal, but for most efficient you should have longer cranks.

Having posted this thread ,it behoves me to change to shorter cranks, I'll get some engineer, and see how it is !
 
No need to engineer . . . If you are able to buy. BMX riders have long used cranks of a variety of lengths, and some BMX manufacturers make five bolt spider square taper cranks. Alternatively, if you don’t want to build up your own chain set, Sugino make very nice old school touring doubles and triples in a range of crank lengths.
 
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OP
grldtnr

grldtnr

Senior Member
No need to engineer . . . If you are able to buy. BMX riders have long used cranks of a variety of lengths, and some BMX manufacturers make five bolt spider square taper cranks. Alternatively, if you don’t want to build up your own chain set, Sugino make very nice old school touring doubles and triples in a range of crank lengths.
Slight problem ,the AZUB is hollow/external bearings on it , further complicated by a single ring & 3 SPD hub 9 gear rear hub, not insurmountable, but costly to change if it isn't right for me.
But fortunately I have a spare recumbent, an Optima Rider trike ,same gearing config, but it does have a double up front, that does have taper axle tho', but I don't find it as comfortable as the AZUB.
 

Sharky

Guru
Location
Kent
BMX riders have long used cranks of a variety of lengths, and some BMX manufacturers make five bolt spider square taper cranks
SINZ expert cranks can be got for about £50 and are standard 110, square taper and as short as you want. I've got these on two of my bikes.
 

fatjel

Veteran
Location
West Wales
When I first built the Bachetta Giro it had 175 crank arms because I bought them without checking the size.
The first couple of months I rode it a lot and my knees did hurt.
Reading stuff online seemed to suggest shorter crank arms would help so i bought a 165 crankset
It didn't feel different if I'm honest ,
My knee problem was caused , I think, by me pushing against the seat to help climbing
As I became more used to recumbenting it got better
I do think the shorter cranks gave my knees very slightly better clearance on the bars
 
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OP
grldtnr

grldtnr

Senior Member
SINZ expert cranks can be got for about £50 and are standard 110, square taper and as short as you want. I've got these on two of my bikes.
Might get a smaller ring to give a lower ratio, but I don't want all the fuss of another changer,the extra ring won't lower bottom gear by much, I will just grab the chain tube to flip it over, it's what I do with the Optima trike, is no bovver.
 

GrandadPig

Regular
Location
Eye, Suffolk
Blimey! How big are your feet? From my recollection, at least for the models that I have seen photos of, the Anthrotec is fairly high off the ground, Being somewhat of a twinkletoes myself I don't have much in the way of heel strike problems even on my SWB front wheel. Up to now I haven't needed to use clips as my feet just seem to stay put. Do your heels make contact on level tarmac or is it just if the surface is uneven?
You know the okd saying about men with big feet 😂. it’s not true by the way😢

seriously, I am a standard uk size 8. But if I angle my foot vertically then I can hit the floor. My previous trike, also an Anthrotech did not do this. Commuted to work everyday summer and winter with no issues. Now thinking perhaps this one has longer cranks, I’ll measure them.
 
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