Bioethanol burners

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winjim

Smash the cistern
Anybody got any experience with them? The house we're buying has had the chimney breasts taken out so we can't have a normal gas fire. We don't really like electric and although a wood burner appeals, we'd need to route the flue through the upstairs.

We'd quite like a traditional-ish fireplace and mantelpiece as a non-telly focus for the room and came across bioethanol which supposedly is clean burning enough to not need a flue. But, is it any good in terms of heat output, ease of use, cost etc? If we get one for the house, would one also be suitable for the garage/workshop?

Experience, opinions and wild speculation all welcome...
 

keithmac

Guru
I think they're more for decoration rather than heat output.

Do any list heat output (BTUs?), maybe compare that to a large radiator and a wood burner?.

Thing with a wood burner and chimney is it heats the wall/ house structure as well.
 
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winjim

winjim

Smash the cistern
A modest heat output might be ok. I haven't checked the spec for any of them yet as we've only just come across them really. The house has new central heating and double glazing so I'm hoping it'll be pretty warm anyway so if the burner can just top it up a little to make the lounge a bit more cosy it might be alright.

The house also has some sort of heat recovery ventilation system but I'm guessing that's not really going to provide a huge amount of warmth.
 

KnackeredBike

I do my own stunts
Depends if you are prepared to pay a premium for something that looks nice.

Bioethanol fireplaces normally cost about 35p per kwh of heat generated.
You can heat with electric cheaper and gas much cheaper.

Personally I would go for a wood burner, very few people seem to regret installing them and you don't have to wait for it to cool down to refuel. We do use the gas CH but only because I don't have enough time to chop wood for an entire winter.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Looking on a few websites. 80p - £1 an hour is a typical running cost claim, if you buy the cheaper bulk bioethanol.

However, having bought it in bulk as one seller advises, two other sellers then advise not to fill the burners from 5L containers because of the dangers of spillage.
 

MikeG

Guru
Location
Suffolk
.......The house also has some sort of heat recovery ventilation system but I'm guessing that's not really going to provide a huge amount of warmth.

Architect's hat on......

No, these don't produce any warmth (although it is possible to install a heating element into the system, nobody does it). In terms of the thermal performance of the house these simply save ventilation heat losses. In other words, you won't get draughts, and yet you'll have continual fresh air in the house. The difference is that the fresh air isn't cold air, like in a normal house. They are, in my view, the single most important development in domestic/ residential property in the last 3 or 4 decades, and are a wonderful piece of kit. I wouldn't live in a house without one, having lived with them now for over 25 years. No condensation, no stale smells, more even distribution of heat..........you can leave your windows closed (without trickle vents) for the entire winter with no issues whatever.

As for your original question, there are horizontal fan-assisted flue kits available for some gas fires, as well as for some woodburners (you'd need to confirm the latter, as I have no direct experience). If you can route a pipe from your fire location to an external wall then the lack of an extant flue shouldn't be an obstacle.
 
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winjim

winjim

Smash the cistern
Looking on a few websites. 80p - £1 an hour is a typical running cost claim, if you buy the cheaper bulk bioethanol.
I read on one of the websites that because we now have good central heating, the function of a fire has changed from providing heat to giving ambience to a room, and because you don't have it on all the time, they're economical too.

Which is a fancy way of saying that they're crap and expensive to run. Not too bothered about flammable liquid handling myself, but could be a concern around kids.

As for your original question, there are horizontal fan-assisted flue kits available for some gas fires, as well as for some woodburners (you'd need to confirm the latter, as I have no direct experience). If you can route a pipe from your fire location to an external wall then the lack of an extant flue shouldn't be an obstacle.
Fan assisted flue might actually be a better idea. I think we'll need to decide how much we need the thing to provide actual heat, and how much is just for decoration and "ambience". HRVS sounds good though.

Oh yeah, and we've got underfloor heating in the downstairs bog so at least one room's going to be nice and cosy.
 

stephec

Legendary Member
Location
Bolton
Architect's hat on......

No, these don't produce any warmth (although it is possible to install a heating element into the system, nobody does it). In terms of the thermal performance of the house these simply save ventilation heat losses. In other words, you won't get draughts, and yet you'll have continual fresh air in the house. The difference is that the fresh air isn't cold air, like in a normal house. They are, in my view, the single most important development in domestic/ residential property in the last 3 or 4 decades, and are a wonderful piece of kit. I wouldn't live in a house without one, having lived with them now for over 25 years. No condensation, no stale smells, more even distribution of heat..........you can leave your windows closed (without trickle vents) for the entire winter with no issues whatever.

As for your original question, there are horizontal fan-assisted flue kits available for some gas fires, as well as for some woodburners (you'd need to confirm the latter, as I have no direct experience). If you can route a pipe from your fire location to an external wall then the lack of an extant flue shouldn't be an obstacle.
Are you talking about the whole house ventilation systems, or the small ducts that can be installed in individual rooms?
 

MikeG

Guru
Location
Suffolk
Are you talking about the whole house ventilation systems, or the small ducts that can be installed in individual rooms?
Whole house systems.
 

keithmac

Guru
I ripped our living room fire out years ago as we never used it, two radiators in the front room are more than enough..
 

keithmac

Guru
But if you don't have a mantlepiece, where do you put your Christmas cards?

That's the price we had to pay unfortunately!, freed up a nice bit of floor space knocking the hearth out and I wasn't sorry to see the last of the fireguard..
 
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winjim

winjim

Smash the cistern
That's the price we had to pay unfortunately!, freed up a nice bit of floor space knocking the hearth out and I wasn't sorry to see the last of the fireguard..
That is pretty much what the sellers have done. It does create more space but where are we going to put our bookshelves? We had them built specifically to go either side of a chimney breast...
 
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winjim

winjim

Smash the cistern
Resurrecting this thread just to ask a quick question of @MikeG if I may. With the heat recovery ventilation system, would you also need separate extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom? Our surveyor noted that none were fitted and recommended their installation, but I thought the heat recovery system might serve that purpose.
 
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