Blackwall tunnel - Toll

[Beebo]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...new-river-crossing-at-silvertown-8252941.html
This story has grabbed my attention.

East London has very few Thames Crossing points for cars. Between Tower Bridge and M25 there are just 3 crossings; the Rotherhithe Tunnel, Blackwall Tunnel, Woolwich ferry. The Blackwall tunnel, being far and away the busiest of the three. TFL are aware that this needs to change so they are planning to build a new bridge and move the ferry crossing a few mile east.

But in order to fund the new crossing they are thinking about putting a toll on the Blackwall tunnel. There is already a toll of £2 each way on the M25 and the Woolwich ferry is at full capacity. So anyone wanting th cross the Thames East of tower bride either has to pay for the priviledge or sit in long queues. If they put a toll on the Blackwall tunnel this will just push traffic into central London and the roads around the A2 and A13 will just be grid locked.

Is it fair to expect the drivers of East London to pay £2 to fund a new crossing, I dont remember seeing anyone chaging the drivers in West London for the recent bridge refurbishment in Hammersmith and Battersea, and west London is awash with places to cross the Thames.

I have a vested interest in this because my commute takes me past the woolwich ferry, and both tunnels before crossing over Tower Bridge, and I dont want the roads to get any busier than they are now. I am also a car driver like 90% of the people of CC.

 

[Black Sheep]

does the ferry cost to use?

I can see the sense behind the drivers paying for something that will be of benefit to them, but agree that it does seem unfair to have not done so for the bridge in Hammersmith and Battersea.

 

[Beebo]

the ferry is currently free, but the concern is that it will no longer be free once it moves a mile or so downstream. Questions have been raised in the London Assembly but no one will confirm either way.

 

[Drago]

Is it fair for tax payers who don't own cars to subsidise car owners who want to cross the Thames in East London.

Life ain't fair, and no ones forcing them into a car.

 

[mcshroom]

If the ferry starts charging that would affect pedestrians and cyclists as well.

The road infrastucture on the South side is already in place for a new crossing. There's an almost empty dual-carriageway from Plumstead to Erith (A2016 - Bronze Age Way) with motorway style graded junctions at Thamesmead which always looked like it was designed to take the traffic to a new crossing.

If they could build a new bridge there that carried foot passengers as well as cars then it would be useful

 

[Drago]

Who is 'they'? And where would 'they' be expected to get the funding from?

 

[Beebo]

Is it fair for tax payers who don't own cars to subsidise car owners who want to cross the Thames in East London.

Life ain't fair, and no ones forcing them into a car.

Is it fair for people without children to subsidise schools? It's a question of whether it benefits society as a whole. And I beleive that anything that erduces the congestion in East London would be a good thing, It will benefit business, create jobs and even make cycling on the roads a bit nicer.

I would probably agree if the routes were going to be white elephants like the cable car, but these routes will be full to capacity for at least 4-6 hours every day, and very busy at all other times.

Just listen to any traffic broadcast on BBC radio, the Blackwall tunnel and Dartford crossing will almost certainly get mentioned as they are massive bottlenecks, which cause delays and delays cost money.

 

[mcshroom]

Who is 'they'? And where would 'they' be expected to get the funding from?

As TfL is the body that looks after major roads in London, and that is who we were talking about in the OP, I would have thought 'they' was obvious, but I meant TfL.

As for the funding, how about tolling the new bridge? Then again it's not as if the London area is starved of transport spending compared to the rest of the country: -

Transport spending per head

London - £2,731
South-east of England - £792
East Midlands - £311
West Midlands - £269
Yorkshire and Humberside - £201
North-west of England - £134
Eastern England - £43
South-west of England - £19
North-east of England - £5

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16235349

(my bold to show the differences between London and my home region is more than 20x)

 

[Drago]

Strewth! Those Londoners has it good.

Seeing as the OP was keen to use the word "fair" we should freeze the spending for London and let us carrots in the regions have a slice of the pie. That'd be properly fair then.

Blimey, if that happens I might get to ride a road with Tarmac on it. Often wondered what that'd be like.

 

[Beebo]

Those figures do make interesting reading, but are skewed by the Olympics and a few very expensive projects. And like it on not London is where the congestion is.

How is spending just £5 per head in the North East, that doesn't ring true! That wouldnt even buy a mile of new motorway.

 

[mcshroom]

Or even dual the A1 north of Newcastle

Manchester, Sheffield, Newcastle, Leeds, York and many other places also have congestion issues.

 

[mcshroom]

But true, however inconvenient they may be to some people

 

[GBC]

The IPPR figures may or may not be accurate, but the general picture is according to the pega report quoted by User above. The report formed one the basis of one of my favourite Paxman interviews

 

[Drago]

Those figures do make interesting reading, but are skewed by the Olympics and a few very expensive projects. And like it on not London is where the congestion is.

...and try and remember that you are a part of that congestion.

If you don't like congestion, and feel bad about having more spent on the roads per capita than the rest if the country, then go live somewhere else.

It can't be unfair while you still gave a choice about where to live, work and ride your cycle.

 

[Scruffmonster]

Surely many of the other busy bridges are indirectly taxed as they are inside the congestion charge zone?

With that said, the day they start charging will be a biblical mess. The Dartford tunnel was once £1. We have a £1 coin, it was easy. The day it went to £1.50 was the day the carnage started. More manned booths, more time taken to hand out change.