Bosch batteries

[Pale Rider]

There are probably something like 40 to 50 hub motor ebikes on the road for every 1 mid-drive motor

Not around here, there are lots of crank drive bikes, mostly Bosch.

Putting a percentage figure on it is impossible, but my guess is a fairly even spilt between hub and crank.

Direct drive motors may be simple (and quiet), but they are useless in an ebike because they produce little torque.

Geared hub motors are perfectly usable, although a decent crank drive bike gives a much smoother and nicer cycling experience.

Anyone who tests both will likely prefer the crank drive, which does come at a cost.

I think Brose is the only crank drive motor to use an internal belt, which makes it quieter, but as you say lots have failed.

Which is not very clever given it's a relatively low volume seller.

The number of Bosch failures is probably relatively low, given the vast numbers sold.

Ultimately, one can only speak as you find.

I've put thousands of miles on three Bosch bikes without any significant failure.

There could be many reasons to buy something else, but fears over reliability is not one of them.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have ended up with a Raleigh Motus - hence Bosch crank drive
Original bike was an old hub drive - replaced with modern hub drive which had design fault not connected to the drive train so went back after 6 months and was replaced with the Motus
We also have a Carrera folding ebike - rear hub drive

Of all of them the Bosch system is my favourite - but I would be quite happy with a decent hub drive - especially if that meant the battery could be recelled by a decent company rather than having to be totally replaced.

I do wonder if Bosch may be forced to change their policy and make it possible to recell their batteries due to the current drive for repair rather than replacement
but I'm not holding my breath!

 

[bonzobanana]

Not around here, there are lots of crank drive bikes, mostly Bosch.

Putting a percentage figure on it is impossible, but my guess is a fairly even spilt between hub and crank.

Direct drive motors may be simple (and quiet), but they are useless in an ebike because they produce little torque.

Geared hub motors are perfectly usable, although a decent crank drive bike gives a much smoother and nicer cycling experience.

Anyone who tests both will likely prefer the crank drive, which does come at a cost.

I think Brose is the only crank drive motor to use an internal belt, which makes it quieter, but as you say lots have failed.

Which is not very clever given it's a relatively low volume seller.

The number of Bosch failures is probably relatively low, given the vast numbers sold.

Ultimately, one can only speak as you find.

I've put thousands of miles on three Bosch bikes without any significant failure.

There could be many reasons to buy something else, but fears over reliability is not one of them.

If you look at this page;

https://www.cyclinguk.org/statistics

Then go down to the how many cycles are sold in the UK you can see the UK average price of bikes sold is about £260-270 (300 euros) in 2019 and that allows for ebikes too. Clearly bike pricing doesn't really start until about £100 and this therefore shows how low end priced bike dominate the market. To get an average of only £265 it really doesn't allow for many bikes that cost many thousands. If you have 200 bikes that cost £200 and 2 bikes that cost £8000 that is an average of £280 per bike, obviously the market is nothing like that you probably have 5,000 bikes sold at £200, 1000 bikes sold at £300, 300 bikes sold at £800, 100 bikes sold at £2,000, 5 bikes sold at £4,000, 1 bike sold at £8,000 etc. Actually thats close to £500 average so I've been far too generous with the numbers of high end bikes but you get the idea.

It's easy to get a skewed false sense of the market as forums are typically frequented by enthusiasts more likely to spend more on their bikes and marketing for bikes is going to be dominated by bikes with high margins hence GCN etc rarely show entry level bikes but the reality is entry level models of any type of bike dominate the market by a huge amount. Halfords themselves have about 40% of the market by volume (25% by £ value), its a staggering figure. About 4 out of 10 bikes are bought from Halfords in the UK. I saw a group of teenagers the other day on bikes, there was about 7 of them and they all had Carrera mountain bikes from Halfords from what I could see. Most looked fairly new and all were hardtails. Carrera seems to be the brand of choice for teenage cyclist's parents anyway. Bosch ebikes has to be a fairly small niche in UK sales unless there is some shop I've not heard about selling them for £300 each. I never see them either although I guess most bikes I see are either outside shops or in pavement bike racks where I have time to see the brand and spec and probably not the sort of place you would leave such bikes. On the road I often don't see the brands as they go past. Where I am I see a huge amount of older bikes being used which is great for the environment. The most recent ebike I've seen was a Dawes folding bike with a hub drive, either a local bike shop purchase or maybe from a catalogue with easy payments. That was parked outside a shop with a hefty chain.

 

[mustang1]

Bosch ebikes are not that expensive, available from about £1,500 in comparison to most of the better Chinese generic stuff which has now edged over £1,000.

Although it's true to say a hub motor is almost always cheaper than a crank drive motor.

The millions of Bosch motors in service is a significant amount for a key component of any bicycle.

Plenty of owners of cheap Chinese bikes will give you an argument about how easy it is to use generic parts.

There are two such bikes languishing in local bike shop's basement which have defied all efforts at repair.

Anything can be repaired on the Trigger's broom principle, but the Chinese bikes quickly become uneconomic to rectify.

I accept that's a slightly different argument, but the result is the same, the punter has a consumer durable for which he paid close to a grand for which cannot realistically be repaired.

Woosh bikes are among the better Chinese generics - I've recommended them on here to buyers on a strict budget.

But the two I had on test a few years ago were both pretty poor in terms of quality, and as an observation, you never see an old one still being ridden.

In comparison to my oldest Bosch bike which is still whirring away happily after about 12 years.

Is that on original battery? (serious question btw, in the context of this discussion i did not want my question to come off as obnoxious)

 

[Pale Rider]

Is that on original battery? (serious question btw, in the context of this discussion i did not want my question to come off as obnoxious)

My original Bosch bike is on its original battery after 12 years.

I rarely do long rides on it to test the range.

It must have declined, just as a tyre must wear with use, but it's still usable.

 

[Blue Hills]

My original Bosch bike is on its original battery after 12 years.

I rarely do long rides on it to test the range.

It must have declined, just as a tyre must wear with use, but it's still usable.

get out on it more mr rider.
(is there a "pic of your ebike somewhere interesting" thread?)

 

[Pale Rider]

get out on it more mr rider.
(is there a "pic of your ebike somewhere interesting" thread?)

It currently serves as my caravan bike.

There's a pic of it wearing its studded tyres on a shopping trip in the OP of my slow burning 'tales from today's utility ride' thread.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/tales-from-todays-utility-ride.194502/