Brompton BWR hub maintenance

[wafter]

Cheers folks

I have several SA 3 speeds. On occasion, I have to remove the indicator chain, and the spindle always has a coating of greyish oil, so would think this quite normal. I add a few drops of engine oil occasionally, through the indicator port. Any more, and it will seep out and make a real mess.
On very old hubs that have been left idle for years, or even decades, they can be gummed up with old oil. Flushing them out with spray lube into the port is all that's needed, then a few drops of oil to finish the job. They really are bombproof, and require little by way of maintenance, let alone a complete disassembly.

I can't imagine the Brommie one being any different really, but if you feel like having a go at a full dismantle and re-lube, then why not

Thanks - I think this will be the route I'll take for now.

I'd rather not strip it completely if I don't have to as of course this takes time and effort, while opening the door to ballsing something up!

The last SA hub I did old grease had bunged up the pawls making the gears slip in 3rd. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/AyFey45j9tXFS97v/? If you’re on Facebook there’s a little before and after video.

Thanks - satisfying indeed! Hopefully regular-ish oiling might help keep the grease mobile and prevent that happening..?

You can just use ordinary 16mm spanners to undo the cones, or even an adjustable wrench. You don't need a ball ring spanner either, you just use a hammer and punch like this.


View: https://youtu.be/ea6krXSs-lc?si=cIfTKROwK8jt5_hb&t=117

Cheers - although I'd never lower myself to such an act of brutaility unless I had no choice

A while ago I had a SA 3 speed which was gummed up due to being left for a long time unused. The advice I got was to fill the hub as far as possible with WD40 and give a spin every day for a couple of weeks then lay the wheel on it's side to drain and repeat this procedure once more.
After draining for the second time fill half way with heavy gear oil. Some will inevitably leak out and be a bit messy initially but that can be allowed to happen on the bench before fitting a tyre.
Worked for me and the hub went on running as long as I had the bike which was a bit of a workhorse for a couple of years.

Cheers and nice work - that was the sort of route I was looking at going, but I think for the time being the grease is probably a better option while it continues to do the job as it should.

The modern greased ones are "sealed for life" but "life" means until the hub dies. The old oiled ones, if ridden with a modicum of sensitivity, last for ever on a drop of oil a month with no need to ever open them up. The one on my commuter hasn't been opened since 2008.

So...it needs to be totally disassembled at least every two years ( SA say annually), degreased and cleaned, then reassembled with the correct greases. The internals need the SA brown semi-fluid grease - it's more like a very thick oil - or an equivalent (the stuff I used is pictured) and the axle bearings need normal lithium grease.

This is a DIY job as most shops won't get involved in hub gear repairs.
View attachment 723951

Indeed - I thought the same about their "lifetime" - a typical marketing-led, self-defeating attitude towards otherwise potentially very long-lasting products.

Thanks for the thoughts on servicing the greased hub; not sure I fancy completely pulling it to bits every two years, although it could give me something to do over Christmas.. I guess to an extent this necessity is mileage dependent too, as long as the grease doesn't dry out. To what extent should it be disassembled? It'd be tempting to just pull the whole core and soak it in paraffin, however my big concern would be getting all of this out again and getting the new lubricant to where it needs to be. Stiripping one down to its component parts looks somewhat intimidating.

Have you pulled a Brompton BWR hub apart at all? What's inside mine is that typical Moly-grey, so perhaps contains a different grease to what you describe above

 

[rogerzilla]

The NIG hubs are a little different to reassemble to the older British hubs. The planet cage pawls are easier in the new ones, using a circlip spring rather than the "R" springs (which are easy to fit to the gear ring but need a real knack to fit to the planet cage). On the flipside, the driver has an additional set of pawls and a thin stamped shroud called a "pawl plate" that gets bent easily and can cause no end of problems.

 

[Schwinnsta]

The manuals that came with the 70 Raleigh era SA hubs called for a teaspoon a month. They leaked, but was it out of design? As a way for it to flush, perhaps.

 

[Chris S]

The manuals that came with the 70 Raleigh era SA hubs called for a teaspoon a month. They leaked, but was it out of design? As a way for it to flush, perhaps.

Yes - it's known as total loss lubrication. I don't remember reading anything about having to clean the spokes though.

 

[Schwinnsta]

Yes - it's known as total loss lubrication. I don't remember reading anything about having to clean the spokes though.

I don't remember having to clean the spokes either, but I do remember a few oil spots on the garage floor. Then there was a saying at least on this side of the pond that "It ain't English if it don't leak."

 

[rogerzilla]

A teaspoon is rather a lot and will make a mess of the wheel. I have just done mine for the month, and I used 0.2ml (1/25 of a teaspoon). If a hub ever gets too dry, you can hear the pawls ticking more loudly.

 

[Fastpedaller]

I don't remember having to clean the spokes either, but I do remember a few oil spots on the garage floor. Then there was a saying at least on this side of the pond that "It ain't English if it don't leak."

Ha Ha - that's good (and I say that as an English man)

 

[FrankCrank]

I don't remember having to clean the spokes either, but I do remember a few oil spots on the garage floor. Then there was a saying at least on this side of the pond that "It ain't English if it don't leak."

You're not wrong there fella - used to have a Triumph Thunderbird

 

[Fields Electric]

I have stripped several gear hubs apart in my life. Even repaired them. Avoid dismantle them. Even assembled correctly they can be difficult to set up. The gears need to be centered in the hub correctly. On my Brompton one of the cones that are pitted. The most that i do is re-grease the wheel bearings. Then re-assemble them. Otherwise best left alone with some oil occasionally.

 

[Chris S]

The gears need to be centered in the hub correctly.

That's not a problem with this particular hub. There's just one set of planet gears rotating around one sun gear. They can only be in the correct position.

 

[Fields Electric]

I have had the same issue with the Brompton. from memory the adjustable cone is on the non drive side. So My approach is to centre the gears tight on the drive side cone. Back the drive side cone off 1/2 a turn. Then adjust for bearing slack with the adjustable cone on the non drive side. Other wise the drive dog has a tendency to slip out of mesh.

 

[Chris S]

I have had the same issue with the Brompton. from memory the adjustable cone is on the non drive side. So My approach is to centre the gears tight on the drive side cone. Back the drive side cone off 1/2 a turn. Then adjust for bearing slack with the adjustable cone on the non drive side. Other wise the drive dog has a tendency to slip out of mesh.

The hub's internals are held in place by the ballring. Twiddling the cones just changes the amount of friction in the wheel bearings.

 

[Fields Electric]

Hi, Just an update. My rear wheel was starting to sound very rough. I found some spares for the drive side bearings. The free wheel ball race was definitely breaking up. So I replaced the cone and the drive pawl set. Used LM grease on the ball races. Re-filled the gear hub with EP 90 gear oil. It's thicker than 3 in one etc. It does not seem to run out as easily. So far a much quieter ride. Strava seems to indicate that some trips are getting quicker!!

 

[Andy in Germany]

I'll be dismantling my BWR Hub on Monday because the freewheel is totally gummed up. We have some hub gear grease at work, but my boss is concerned that Brompton may recommend a specific grease.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Gunk]

I'll be dismantling my BWR Hub on Monday because the freewheel is totally gummed up. We have some hub gear grease at work, but my boss is concerned that Brompton may recommend a specific grease.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

It’s 1940’s technology, any decent grease will do