Brompton BWR hub maintenance

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It’s 1940’s technology, any decent grease will do

We generally use Shimano hub gear grease. I've said I'll use that and if it doesn't work I'll find out what Brompton suggest.

I think it may be that this is Germany, and my colleagues come from the automotive and very high-end bike range, so they are used to having to use very specific grease and oil for everything.
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
We generally use Shimano hub gear grease. I've said I'll use that and if it doesn't work I'll find out what Brompton suggest.

I think it may be that this is Germany, and my colleagues come from the automotive and very high-end bike range, so they are used to having to use very specific grease and oil for everything.

Some recommendations earlier in this thread; including the result of my research (for what that's worth) in post 9:

It seems that these hubs use grease rather than oil to reduce the need for regular maintenance (oiling) and make them cleaner as oiled designs aren't totally sealed so leak to a small extent. The downsides of grease are that it can migrate away from areas of load and dry out over time. There's potentially also less natural "flushing" action compared to oil since it all stays inside the hub and will retain contamination. It also needs to be applied directly to components, meaning more disassembly if re-lubing.

So, oil requires frequent if minmal attention and is a bit less convient but should last forever. If it did need attention, this could probably be achieved by flushing and re-lubing without disassembly. Grease remains maintenance-free for a longer period of time, but will ultimately require stripping; cleaning and re-greasing.

Thixotropic or semi-fluid grease appears to mitigate these issues somewhat as it becomes less viscous under load, meaning potentially better coverage and distribution in use, but less chance of migration and leakage when static.

There's a thread on the CUK forum in which a landrover swivel pin grease is recommended. Its also suggested that its viscosity can further be modified by adding gear oil (presumably mineral-based). Another suggestion is thinning out CV joint grease (which contains a lot of moly) with gear oil, but this probably doesn't display such desirable thixotropic properties.

I like moly as it's great under high loads (hence the CV joint application), although it doesn't seem that prevalent in automotive gearbox lubrication. I did find a Molykote product for (presumably non-automotive) gearboxes which contains moly. It's possible / likely that the Landrover stuff mentioned above might also (a video containing some seems to back this up given it's colour).



What's on the end of my gear indicator chain is a uniform dark grey and somewhere between CV joint grease and oil in viscosity.. so could well already be something like those described above. It doesn't look visibly contaminated and I can't really feel any roughness between my fingers..

While I'm wary of "sealed" / claimed "low maintenance" products it seems that what's in there should legitimately last a decent amount of time, and I can' add the odd drop of mineral oil down the axle periodically to ensure it doesn't become too thick.

Further down the line / when time allows / when I have the spuds to sufficiently disassemble it, I can look to strip, clean and re-lube the hub - for which I'll apparently need a Sturmey Archer HTR 145 Classic Ball Ring Spanner in addition to some cone spanners.


:smile:
 
This is encouraging. My BWR hub is making bad noises. I've ordered some bearings from SJS. Plan is to replace those and not necessarily do a full disassembly.

The only other SA hub I've taken apart was about 50 years ago. Wow, how time flies.
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
I am baffled here. So, what is wrong with the Sturmey Archer Internal Grease HM106/103A https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lubricants/sturmey-archer-internal-grease-100-ml-tub/ ?

Truth be told I wasn't even aware they supplied grease for their hubs.

The SJS reviews are positive, however this thread suggests that there are better alternatives.

It would be interesting to see what the SA grease actually looks like / how it behaves / what it actually is (doubtless some generic industry standard grease repackaged at a huge margin).
 

u_i

Über Member
Location
Michigan
I tried practically everything in every possible thread and settled on what SA provides. Anything you try is a compromise, and that from SA is in a reasonable middle. Close to winter, the highest gear, i.e., the highest BWR + small cog, sticks, and if it bothers you, you shift to the next gear. Any sticking is the last thing on your mind in the middle of winter. I moved to other problems in life.
 
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I am baffled here. So, what is wrong with the Sturmey Archer Internal Grease HM106/103A https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lubricants/sturmey-archer-internal-grease-100-ml-tub/ ?

I haven't got any.
 

Chris S

Legendary Member
Location
Birmingham
Hub completely stripped down and rebuilt twice. No change: freehub still refuses to work.

I've had a look on YouTube and the BWR hub is almost identical to a Sturmey Archer NIG (no intermediate gear) 3-speed hub.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIgNrHSSHFI


Freewheeling occurs when the hub shell moves faster than the hub mechanism. The only thing connecting them are two sets of pawls, one at either end of the hub. Are the pawls fitted in the correct direction?

I've seen some photos of this on here, I'll try and find them now.

[EDIT] I've found them, they were posted earlier on in this thread. Here they are again with one showing the planet cage pawls as well.

SA Pawls1.JPG


SA Pawls2.JPG


xrd3.jpg
 
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Chris S

Legendary Member
Location
Birmingham
Just buy a used hub off eBay, I’ve bought one in the past for under £40

Was that a BWR or an older AW hub? The AW is far more simple (and reliable) but has a 'neutral' between 2nd and 3rd gear. It was discontinued because standing on the pedals in 3rd can cause you to slip into neutral and send you over the handlebars!
 
Riding back home I found that it is a little better than before, but still the freewheel doesn't work well.

The frustrating part was that there were no obviously damaged parts, nothing cracked or pitted, with the possible section of the large diameter ball bearing cage: the bearings looked a little rusty and still seemed rough after cleaning, I'm wondering if that was the issue.
 
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