Can an excessively stiff frame slow you down?

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OneCogDown

Active Member
I am hoping the forum will help me to understand whether its me, the bike or a bit of both that seems to have me peddling in ever slower circles.

For context (and there's quite a bit), until 2018 my cycling was very much restricted to a twice weekly commute into central London from the 'burbs on a Dawes 531 a 25km round trip; the following year allowed me to enjoy more time on the bike and I bought an old aluminium Principia on which I rode routes of 30/40km several times per week. The ride was noticeably faster but very harsh compared to the steel Dawes, which whilst far to big for me, a 60cm frame, did seem to float over the worst that Lewisham, Deptford and the old kent road could throw in its path (its undoing was sadly a newly installed & unmarked traffic calming width restriction placed immediately beside a mega pot hole).
An emerging car knocked me off and broke the Principia in Oct 2020 but by Spring I was ready to meet the traffic if it meant I could enjoy the lanes and being outside again, so I bought a medium size (56cm, tt) early enigma from a gentleman down in Wiltshire. This bike I rebuilt it is an utterly fantastic ride, smoother, so much faster and lighter( just over 8kg) between May and August I increased my loops around Kent and Surrey to 50-80km which lead to 4 x 200km audaxes. And here comes the but, as I extended my rides I noticed back pain, numb shoulders and hands and general fatigue after rides over 60km. I tried different saddles, handlebar widths, seat posts, tyre combos and could not get comfortable and eventually resigned myself to needing a smaller framed bike.

The focus of my post is this bike.
A 54cm horizontal top tubed, traditional style touring bike built in 1996 by Roy Manser from Columbus Neuron tubing for a clubmate. Thrilled with my purchase from its second owner, who had graciously retired from his battle with the A3 traffic I did a few of my shorter local loops and instantly noticed it was quite a bit heavier especially when climbing hills; but less backache. A couple of weeks later on another Audax with 3000' climb I realised the triple crank-set was not going to save me and as I timed out, discovering the limits of battery powered lights and failing to finish after 191km; I learned in my misery the bike was capable but I clearly was not, I could not understand what had gone so wrong in terms of my energy and speed.
As a consequence of this near final bike ride, a recommended local bike fitter spent a great deal of time, patience and effort setting up the bike for me. I learned a great deal and after a month I returned to tweek the riding position. Its taken a good couple of months now to settle into the different posture and I feel much more stable, have no further back, knee, shoulder or hand pain....but I now seem to be much slower on the same local loops and hills; despite trying different tyres and pressures I feel the bike is extremely harsh and unresponsive, this surprises me as I am told its beautifully made from quality tubes. Today I cycled a familiar 50km circuit (wet, foggy and cold) on the enigma and despite it making my back ache and a wobble on the front wheel, averaged 3kmh faster for far less effort and in horrid conditions.

To summarise, a lugged steel touring bike with front and rear pannier fittings (not fitted), mud guards, Handbuilt MA40s on Campag Veloce hubs, Durano plus tyres weighs in at 12.5kg. I weigh 65 kg and ride with just a small saddlebag. The bike fits me but could its rigidity without touring luggage etc. be partly responsible for my slow speed compared to my former ill fitting bikes and nearly all those I now encounter locally?
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I don't have an answer I'm afraid. But :welcome:anyway.
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
The difference between an 8Kg bike and a 12 Kg bike is probably more the cause than the stiffness of the frame. You may also be riding in a more upright position, which while better for comfort, is worse for aerodynamics.

In fact the stiffer the frame in the right direction, the better for performance. If it is flexing more as you pedal, then less of the force you are exerting is going to the wheels, as some is diverted to the flexing.

But of course, this is a compromise, as it needs to flex enough in certain directions to be comfortable.

And this is the biggest advantage of carbon frames - not the low weight, but the fact they can much more easily be made stiff in one direction while compliant in another.
 

presta

Guru
You're not going to want to hear this, but I think you might be looking in the wrong place.

There are some big increases in your training load in amongst that lot, what increments were you increasing by, and over what period of time? What intensity were you riding at, how much recovery time were you allowing? How long did you take to go from 2x25km to say 4x40km? With small increments and regular rest weeks that should take about 3-4 months. If you increase your training load and your performance goes down instead of up, you're overtraining, and the insidious thing about it is that people usually react to the loss of performance by training harder and harder. If they then fail to recognise the symptoms, and persist for long enough it can cause irreversible damage.

That's what I did, and it permanently ruined my health.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
And this is the biggest advantage of carbon frames - not the low weight, but the fact they can much more easily be made stiff in one direction while compliant in another.
Ah the old "laterally stiff but vertically compliant" phrase that is so beloved of hacks in the cycling press. (Along with blurb about how a carbon fork "does a good job of evening out the road buzz") ;)
 

mustang1

Guru
Location
London, UK
I have strong opinions about frame stiffness:
1. steel frames don't ride quite as smoothly as some people make out (it rides like a Cadillac.... like have they been in a Caddy?) but it's not bad.
2. sloping top tubes are devil's work and I have an inkling it has more to do with cost cutting than much else. Looks gross but I have to accept they are here to stay. The triangle becomes smaller leading to an increasingly stiff frame but then the seatpost becomes longer leading to more flexibility. However, then (for example Giant) bring out a D-Fuse seat post that stiffens things up again).
3. When people say aluminium rides as well as carbon these days, i have an inkling it's because carbon frames prices have gone through the roof so the manufacturers have to tell consumers that aluminium is fine (and they get YouTube influencers to do that).
4. Sloping top tubes combined with lowered seat stays look truly awful.
 
Man there is a lot of detail there.
If it was just stiffness in the Frame then that's one thing but completely different bikes - there's just too many parameters to look at.

If the frame is harsh though - ride fatter tyres and let some air out.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
I have strong opinions about frame stiffness:
I have rigid opinions :smile:
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
If the frame is harsh though - ride fatter tyres and let some air out.
This. 95%. is pneumatic comfort from tyres. Larger lower pressure tyres will be floating along. I absolutely love 40mm tyres for general riding in tubeless. I start around 50psi but end up around 30psi for superb feel and comfort
 

Ian H

Ancient randonneur
There is a lot of egregious rubbish talked about frame material and comfort. 99% of how comfortable and /or efficient a bike is comes down to geometry and fit, regardless of material, and of course, the size and quality of the tyres.
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Only my view but dont listen to all the marketing hipe about frames etc, the older alloy Aaln bikes seemed to be made of reinforced tinfoil or so it seems and any time i cycled on one i could feel the frame bend or flex, but any time i actually timed myself (using similar tyres etc) there was no difference against a more modern frame.
Main thing is get a bike that fits you, (near enough is good enough in my view and then get fitted to that bike ie correct saddle height plus fore and aft, correct stem.
The bigger the tyres the lower pressure you can run and the more comfortable will be your bike, finding a saddle can either be very easy and cheap or can take years and involve trail and expense i can offer very little as i fall into the latter.
As for speed invest in yourself good diet,rest and training schedule will see much more gains than any change to a bike.
 
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