Can I have your thoughts on this route and these maps?

[TwoInTow]

Just thinking about summer 2012 and where to go. Some of you have helped me before so you know this, but... We travel as a family of 4. Youngest is 9. My mother might come - she's nearly 70 and unfit. We all did Donaueschingen - Passau last summer which was great but (of course) dead easy. I think we are up for something a bit more challenging this time - but not by much as (truth be told) my 9 year old is a bit of a wuss, and my mother isn't getting younger. So it doesn't have to be dead flat (we can do a couple of days of moderate hills), but mostly dead flat is probably right!

I'm probably not as adventurous/free-and-easy as most on here, and I definitely don't want to set out without a proper path definitely planned. (I'd be fine with that if just me and my husband, but not with small children and an active-but-elderly-novice.) I was thoroughly spoiled by the Bikeline maps for the Danube route last summer, and would like more of the same for the next family trip. So....


I'm thinking that Holland down to Basel (Switzerland) would be good because:

(a) we can catch a ferry (easier with five people and five bikes - actually four bikes, since one's a tandem!);
(b) we have good family friends to stay with in Basel, so we can have a few days of gentle collapse at the end before heading back;
(c) I've found some detailed guides/maps;
(d) we like to camp unless the weather is dreadful, and I'm thinking that this is a reasonable region for camping.

So the plan is to get the ferry to Hoek van Holland, and then some specific questions...

1. I'm thinking that getting the train from Hoek van Holland to Eindhoven would help because it will cut a bit of length off (maybe 150Km or so), without requiring so many changes of train etc as to be a nightmare with all of our bikes/luggage. Would I be missing amazing natural beauty/sights worth seeing if we did this? Does it make sense?

2. The trains to do this are called (I think) 'Sprinter' and 'Intercity'. As far as I can tell, you can take your bikes on these with a ticket outside rush hour. Anyone know if this is correct? If there's no room on a single train, we can split into two groups and catch the next one, so we don't all have to fit at the same time.

3. The guide I'm thinking of getting has this route for Eindhoven to Maastricht. (Bottom right of picture.)

And it has this route for Maastricht to Basel:

Looks good to me - but what do I know?!! (Wish I could go right down to Rome, though... that would be GREAT!)

Any thoughts, O Wise Ones?

4. The guides themselves look good and detailed (although in Dutch):

http://www.cyclingeu...te/fotos/deel/1

I have a bit of German, which means I can decipher some basics, but not too much else.

I'd be really grateful for any thoughts/advice/suggestions.

 

[snorri]

My first thought was why do you not follow the Rhine Radweg south from Hoek v Holland? It fulfils your wish for "mostly dead flat", and there are Bikeline guides for it so you can have "more of the same".



http://www.esterbauer.com/db_detail.php?buecher_code=RHE3

 

[TwoInTow]

Hmmm... Good thought, snorri. I didn't realise that that path went so far north, ie close to the ferry.

There's one thing that's less favourable, which is the getting back. For my other route, I have a CityNightline which will take us all in one train from Basel back to Holland. We can book a sleeper and a separate wagon takes the bikes, so we will all fit as long as I book early enough. We would have to do another 2 trains within Holland, so 3 in total. But we can sleep most of the journey and it's not too many changes.

For the Rhine Radweg, judging from the map, we probably want to do it from Mainz up to Rotterdam (ie the downhill direction), but to get from Hoek van Holland to the starting point in Mainz is, as far as I can tell, 5 trains in daylight hours, ie 5-8 hours of travelling, constantly broken up with changes. Mind you, I adore Germany and speak the language, so it's attractive from that point of view.

Must really think this through and try to decide what's preferable.

[Edited to say: now I think about it, direction is surely irrelevant when the elevation changes by 100m in 600Km!! But we still have to travel by train in at least one direction, so that thought still needs exploring...]

 

[mcr]

What about taking the CNL train from the Netherlands to Basel and cycling back from there, along the Rhine? You've then got the backup option of taking the train back to HvH if you get behind schedule from however far down the river you've got. You can also knit together more personal routes from the plethora of signed/maintained cycle routes in that part of Germany, such as the scenic side valleys to the Rhine - eg Ahr, Lahn etc - they're all well-catered for online if you google them.

Incidentally, the mapped route you show is going to be quite hilly in places, given that it crosses both the Ardennes/Eifel and the Vosges (though I think there are some ex-rail routes across the former still 'under development'). As someone who usually tries to find the route of least resistance, I've already looked into these for my own as yet unfulfilled plans!

 

[TwoInTow]

OK, this is really revealing how little I know! So glad I asked...

The Rhine route might work really well, mcr. And the more I think about it, I am definitely feeling more comfortable with the dead-flat option. We can do more challenging things with the family over the next few years, but we definitely have a limited time in which my mother can do this stuff with us, and I want something that is comfortable enough for her that it's still actually fun. She is probably up to the more challenging one I was thinking of, but it would be terrible for her to find she is the weakest link - she would hate that! - so probably the better idea is to get something well within her grasp.

I didn't really understand just how long the Rhine route was! It'll be interesting to see how far we can get, but as you point out, we can just catch the train back from wherever our end point happens to be...

I might get the Bikeline guides and think about it some more.

Thanks so much for the thoughts on here - they are definitely sending me off into a different (and better) direction.

 

[Andy in Sig]

The route which would probably fit your bill is the Romantische Strasse from Füssen (where Neuschwanstein castle is) to Wertheim. Then go up the Sinn valley, over the hill to the Weser and cycle all the way down to Porta Westfalica. You then have the option of carrying on to Bremen or heading left to Holland or heading half right to Hamburg.

So the Danube trip was OK then? Did you put an account of it on here or have I missed it?

 

[TwoInTow]

Hi Andy! I have to admit, a bit sheepishly, that I have a half-written CGOAB journal. Fabulous in all its detail for the first half (including some of the info you organised for me, and which saved the day - that parking tip was so useful!), but sadly totally empty for the second half. Yet another thing on the To-Do list.

Anyway, the Romantische Strasse looks good, starting from Fuessen, and would (I'm guessing) be more picturesque than the southern end of the Rhine. A few questions: to hook up with the Weser as you suggest, I'm guessing we would need to catch a few trains to get over some rather big hills. That's fine, because the route is going to be long enough as is, and we'll probably need trains at some point; so if we're going to catch trains, we may as well do it for the hilly parts. Is the Weser Radweg very pretty? There is one downside - since we probably won't make it to the end, we'll be catching a train from somewhere on the Weser-Radweg to Holland. Having a look at the train trips between that Radweg and HvH, they start getting long (8-9 hours) and more complicated (4 trains or more).

So I was wondering if it might be better to catch a train from Lauda (towards the end of the Romantische Strasse) to Mainz, and then link up with the top half of the Rhein-Radweg. That would be about the same amount of time on the trains, pretty convenient, and then the Rhein-Radweg takes us more in the right direction towards HvH and the ferry. Which means that at the point when we run out of time, the train trip back to the ferry is simpler and shorter. However, I'm aware that that part of Germany is pretty densely populated, and maybe not so pleasant.

How would that compare, do you think? Thinking about it, I think a route of something like 800 - 1000Km is going to be about right for us. And as usual, I'm absolutely fine with cheating at any point to make it fun!

 

[rich p]

Hi TiT,
I did the Romantische Strasse from Wurzburg to Fussen this summer and I can thoroughly recommend it. I'd point you to my crazyguy blog if I'd finished it!

The campsites aren't numerous on the RS but I can tell you where they are and what they're like if you're interested.

 

[slowmotion]

The man in seat 61 has loads of advice on travelling around Holland by train with a bike. Here he is...

http://www.seat61.com/Netherlands.htm

 

[willem]

Yes you can take your bikes on those trains. We never had a problem getting all the family bikes onto one train, but your luck may vary. Moreover, the next train is almost always only 30 minutes later.
We did a large chunk of Paul Benjaminse's Maastricht to Rome route when our kids were younger. I think it is a nice route, with excellent maps, and good description (including lists of campsites) with almost only quiet roads and cycle paths. It is mostly pretty flat, but there are exceptions. The first bit, through the Ardennes, is glorious, but tough. I did it again seven years later with my then 10 year old now riding his own bike, and it was a challenge for him (but one he liked). There is another Benjaminse route to Venice, and it takes a more westerly route that you may find easier. North eastern France has few shops and sometimes only just enough campsites. Benjaminse will warn you when that is the case. I have promised myself to write a translation of this route guide because I like it so much, but I have not yet found the time to do this.
Willem

 

[Andy in Sig]

If memory serves you can get a local stopping train from Gemünden am Main to the Fulda valley, thus missing out the Sinn valley and the hills at the top of it. What I forgot to mention above is that first you go along the Fulda (very pretty) and it becomes the Weser once it joins another river at Hannoversche Münden. The Weser keeps getting voted as the most family friendly route in Germany.

Your alternative idea is certainly workable. In that case I would take the Romantische Strasse to Würzburg and then follow the Main to Mainz. The only part of the Rhine which is spectacular (and it is really spectacular and is actually a bit of a must) is the stretch from Bingen to Koblenz. Thereafter it starts to get a bit boring and in the region south of Cologne quite industrial and tedious. So you could look at taking the train from Koblenz and either going to the Hook or going as far as somewhere in Holland and then enjoying a gentle ride in to the Hook.

 

[TwoInTow]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. If Willem says the route I came up with is quite hard, then I'm thinking it's way too hard for our group. I'd love to do it, but it can wait until the right moment. Meanwhile, the Rhine has the advantage that it's just one long route and super-flat, but I'm guessing from some of the responses (and from the fact that I haven't read any rave reviews) that maybe it's not such a scenic route. I've looked through a dozen or so journals on CGOAB, and they haven't been very informative. Can anyone give me an idea?

Anyway, I'm playing around with some of the other ideas here. I think I could get the sleeper from Utrecht to Augsburg, and then trains down to Fuessen as a starting point. Spend a day looking at the famous castle (thanks for pointing that out, Andy!), and then on the bikes for the Romantische Strasse. (I'm waiting for your journal, Rich!) I think we have some time up our sleeve - we can probably take 2.5 weeks or so, so I'm thinking something around 800 Km-ish would be right.

So that might be:
Romantische Strasse from Fuessen to Lauda (415Km)
Trains from Lauda to Fulda
Fulda to Hann. Muenden (200Km on the Fulda-Radweg)
Then Weser Radweg as far as Bad Oeynhausen (200Km).

At that point we can get trains back to HvH, and it's only 3 trains. If we go any further up the Weser, it starts getting to be lots more trains, which I'm not too keen on.

So if anyone's still awake... does it sound OK?