Canti's vs Mini V's?

[euanc]

I have been looking at getting a CX bike (not for racing, just casual road/offroad use) and although I would prefer discs as I come from a MTB background my budget might not stretch to them.

I have read that canti's are pretty poor, especially in the wet so are Mini V's any better? Why do people seem to not recommend them for racing, is it because they have less mud clearance?

Thanks in advance!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

There is quite a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding regarding cantis/mini-Vs around based more on heresay than science imho. I might write an article on the subject in Knowhow some day if I get round to it.

In the meantime assuming you are using drop bar road levers if I were you I would avoid Mini-Vs if the model's cable attachment on the arm to pivot is more than 2x the distance between pads and pivot. If you are getting cantis I would suggest picking ones with a wide frog leg profile (i.e. like those on Helen Wyman's bikes below). It is essentially about matching mechanical advantage of brakes and levers within an optimal zone of power vs pad clearance, and assuming that is sorted, cabling is good and wheels are true, wet performance is then down to choice of pads and rim surface condition.

Hope it helps.

 

[Si_]

get a frame with disc mounts and you can always run avid bb5 road calipers later on as an upgrade. ...my set were forty quid off ebay. Already had the wheels so no biggy. Discs really are not as expensive nowadays as they once were.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

In my experience Canti's are prone to shudder which is a PITA.

I have TRP CX9's Mini V's on my Giant and they are superb. I too was used to MTB disc brakes and was worried about rim brakes. The TRP's have as much stopping power as you will ever need.

The CX9's are designed to be used with Shimano drop bar brifters. The CX8.4's which are similar are for SRAM/Campy I believe.

The CX9's come with road cartrdiges - mine squealed but the fix is to change them for assymetric V brake cartridges.

They look gorgeous too - a number of people have commented on how great they look

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t...HK4AT064CIDg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1241&bih=595

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I have TRP CX9's Mini V's on my Giant and they are superb. I too was used to MTB disc brakes and was worried about rim brakes. The TRP's have as much stopping power as you will ever need.

The CX9's are designed to be used with Shimano drop bar brifters. The CX8.4's which are similar are for SRAM/Campy I believe.

With 90mm long arms they will have a mechanical advantage (MA) of more than 3. Combined with typical drop bar levers MA of 4+, those brakes will have to be set up with tight rim to pad clearance, and therefore perfectly true wheels or else levers will bottom out hitting the bars before the pads bite. It is so because for every inch of pull at your levers the pads will move towards each other by only 2mm - that is assuming there is no play or cable housing compression at all within the system (which of course is never true). But sure if set up like that successfully they will be powerful - those brakes' MA is not far from conventional V brakes which have ~100mm arms and MA of 4.

In my experience Canti's are prone to shudder which is a PITA.

That is usually caused by flexi brake cable hanger and/or forks/steerer, which don't come into play the same way to cause judder with V brakes, mini or otherwise.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

With 90mm long arms they will have a mechanical advantage (MA) of more than 3. Combined with typical drop bar levers MA of 4+, those brakes will have to be set up with tight rim to pad clearance, and therefore perfectly true wheels or else levers will bottom out hitting the bars before the pads bite. It is so because for every inch of pull at your levers the pads will move towards each other by only 2mm - that is assuming there is no play or cable housing compression at all within the system (which of course is never true). But sure if set up like that successfully they will be powerful - those brakes' MA is not far from conventional V brakes which have ~100mm arms and MA of 4.



That is usually caused by flexi brake cable hanger and/or forks/steerer, which don't come into play the same way to cause judder with V brakes, mini or otherwise.

Yes the clearance is tight. I have the pads set about 2mm (maybe a tad closer but had to see) off the rim either side. Wheels are true and do not rub. I have Shimano 105 brifters and they are full on at around 60% of the lever stroke.

My worry about them esp' with the bigger surface area Ashima V brake cartridges was that they would be grabby. Fortunately they are not and work very smoothly. Really impressed with them and they are a doddle to set up.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Yes the clearance is tight. I have the pads set about 2mm (maybe a tad closer but had to see) off the rim either side. Wheels are true and do not rub. I have Shimano 105 brifters and they are full on at around 60% of the lever stroke.

For those brakes and for those levers, if there is indeed 2mm of pad clearance each side, it will require 2 inches of lever travel before the pads can even touch the rim. While powerful, the consequence of its characteristic is likely to include: a) compressionless housing preferred if not required, b) frequent adjustment necessary as pads wear, c) relatively draggy in muddy condition. It is not my intention to knock them, but you found it a doddle to set up probably only because your bike is in tip top condition - based on its geometry, this seems a fair and comprehensive review to me.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

For those brakes and for those levers, if there is indeed 2mm of pad clearance each side, it will require 2 inches of lever travel before the pads can even touch the rim. While powerful, the consequence of its characteristic is likely to include: a) compressionless housing preferred if not required, b) frequent adjustment necessary as pads wear, c) relatively draggy in muddy condition. I have no intention to knock them, but you found it a doddle to set up probably only because your bike is in tip top condition - based on its geometry, this seems a fair and comprehensive review to me.

I can get a credit card (old Nectar points card in truth) in either side without too much effort. Pads are set flat as they don't need any toe. Pads hit rims with about 1" lever pull (at the tip) on the front and a quarter inch further at the rear. Neither are squidgy.

Yes I've read that review. Does seem fair although I did not have any hassle with the rear brake setting as the author has. I can't get my levers anywhere near my drops even with a hard pull.

Nice brakes do the job. Maybe not for someone who races - I just use my bike on the road (wuss!).

 

[Howard]

It may be that the CX9s are designed to be used with the new shimano brifters which pull more cable than previous versions and so have less mechanical advantage, all things equal.

As I understand it, anyway.

 

[euanc]

Thanks for the info, I shall keep it all in mind! I'm looking to buy a complete bike as it will be cheaper than building one up from scratch and completes with discs seem to go for more than rim brakes.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

It may be that the CX9s are designed to be used with the new shimano brifters which pull more cable than previous versions and so have less mechanical advantage, all things equal.

As I understand it, anyway.

Only just read this and yes, you are right, they are designed for the newer shifters.

I altered my cable run for the rear brake yesterday as the LBS had not done a very good job (cable exited the interrupters too sharply) and they felt a bit 'sticky'.

For whatever reason, now I have adjusted them, they are now on full at exactly the same point as the fronts.

So both are full on (pulling hard) with about 1" lever movement at the tip - and they have a long way to go before they would touch the bars.

I have got the newer TRP adjustable noodles too so brake wear is easy to compensate for.

 

[Eljay76]

I have read that canti's are pretty poor, especially in the wet so are Mini V's any better?

I got my CX bike from a retired pro cyclist who was in the Tour de France and was the world champion in cyclo-cross racing three times. He has a bike shop now. I asked him if I could get Mini-V brakes but he just ignored my request, saying that Cantis are better. Who wants to argue with a world champion? Having said that, I only use my CX bike as a road bike with road tires and I wasn't too pleased with the Canti brakes so I switched to Mini-V brakes( Tektro RX5) at the end with SwissStop brake pads. I would say that my bike feels like I have disc brakes now. Cantis are probably better if you do actual cyclo-cross racing on muddy roads but if you mainly ride on the street, Mini-Vs are better from my experience.
The only down-side is that I don't really dare to go to that bike shop anymore because I feel a bit embarrassed to show up with my Mini-V brakes

 

[Alun]

+1. Sounds like he just couldn't be bothered.
I have RX5s and swissstops, but find there isn't enough clearance to "flip" the arms wide open when changing a wheel, as the pads catch on the fork/seatstay. Do you have that trouble? I only ride on roads and gravel paths as well.

 

[Eljay76]

+1. Sounds like he just couldn't be bothered.

Hehe, you're right, he's this 75 year old retired pro cyclist who probably has been using Cantis since the 50's.

I have RX5s and swissstops, but find there isn't enough clearance to "flip" the arms wide open when changing a wheel, as the pads catch on the fork/seatstay. Do you have that trouble? I only ride on roads and gravel paths as well.

What I do is let the air out completely before I remove the wheel and then I always manage to squeeze it through but I do it gently.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

+1. Sounds like he just couldn't be bothered.
I have RX5s and swissstops, but find there isn't enough clearance to "flip" the arms wide open when changing a wheel, as the pads catch on the fork/seatstay. Do you have that trouble? I only ride on roads and gravel paths as well.

Have you got more than one washer on the pad side of the arm? If you have, could you remove one and still meet cable set up criteria?