Catch the conniving jaywalker

[snailracer]

...Is there specific case law on the liability of pedestrians when they step out in front of vehicles (either cars, PTWs or cycles) unexpectedly? It would be interesting to read how the courts have dealt with it. Whilst I've always understood that hitting pedestrians on a bike would always de facto be the cyclist's fault (for the myriad reasons already outlined above), I can envisage a scenario when a court would find at least in favour of the vehicle driver to some extent. If it's never been tested in court, then doesn't it remain open that a court could find in a driver's favour?

It is unusual to find any party 100% liable in a civil case for a road accident, unless they clearly broke a criminal law i.e. jump a red light, drunk driving, etc. Since it's quite difficult for a pedestrian to break a criminal law (there not being that many traffic laws that apply to them) it's difficult to prove they are entirely at fault in most accidents.

 

[subaqua]

so would now be the time to say peds should have number plates and pay insurance and road tax

 

[Dayvo]

[QUOTE 1756432, member: 45"]You're right. Not sure why you've quoted me then.[/quote]

Because if you had anticipated the problem, you would have taken the necessary action and not been in 'danger', then you wouldn't have needed to write to the bus company!

Simples!

 

[Dayvo]

[QUOTE 1756477, member: 45"]Did I avoid a collision? If you'll read the email properly you'll see that in the first conflict I was riding with escape room to my left, which enabled me to get out of the way of the bus. In the second, I positioned myself behind a car and inside his right-hand line, so the bus could not have driven into me. So in both situations I was safe, and the risk was minimised. The driver on the other hand showed very poor road positioning and put himself both times in places where he shouldn't have been.

This isn't about higher moral ground, and you'd do well to stop seeing it like that because then you'd be able to approach the matter objectively. No-one is infallible and we all make mistakes. I certainly have, and I've been able to learn much from this forum from the hindsight of others because they gave an objective view without fear of upsetting the sensitive. I haven't always liked what's been said to me, but that's life.[/quote]

And swap your experience with the OP's.

The pedestrian on the other hand showed very poor road positioning and put herself in places where she shouldn't have been.

See the point I'm making?

Don't blame/criticise/patronise someone when the same applies to you.

 

[Dayvo]

(I can't do the multiple quote thingy)

OK, we're both looking at this from opposite sides and have started to go round in circles.

You, fortunately, avioded your large obstacle (a bus) and rightly so felt it was necessary to complain about the poor driving of the bus driver.

Lilac, unfortunately, wasn't so fortunate, and despite avoiding a collision with a smaller obstacle (a pedestrian), sustained injuries and expensive damage to her bike. She doesn't think she could have done anything more to avoid the crash whilst avoiding a collision.

Prepared to accept it as 'one of those things' she was quite rightly incensed to find that she'd been given incorrect details as to the person's identity. She now wants to find out if she is entitled to any compensation.

We don't know if her situation was any worse than yours, she did what she could, as did you. We are all wise after the event, and we even think we are doing the right thing until it goes wrong - and we only have a split second to make a decision and react.

I'm sure she has learned from this, as I'm sure all of us might now re-consider the way we cycle in certain environments.

 

[gambatte]

[QUOTE 1756492, member: 45"]Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Step/stride/whatever. If you're taking a line where a pedestrian could get into your path and you can't avoid them then it's likely that you're riding too fast or too close to the kerb.[/quote]

'Likely'.... you're wavering!

 

[gambatte]

Can't be me then, I only see false absolutes so far. Starting with

you DON'T hit pedestrians, whether it's their "fault" or not.

[QUOTE 1756492, member: 45"]Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Step/stride/whatever. If you're taking a line where a pedestrian could get into your path and you can't avoid them then it's likely that you're riding too fast or too close to the kerb.

I nearly hit an old bloke once who walked out from behind a bus without looking. Lifted the rear wheel and almost scuffed one of his shoes. Yes. Should he have walked into my path without looking? No. Could I have anticipated the situation better and so not ended up so close to him? Yes.[/quote]

yes you probably could have anticipated the situation.
If you ride at 5mph down the centreline, you could mitigate the possibility of any person under 4ft tall running out from between parked vehicles. You might as well leave the bike at home and walk though. I'll carry on riding.

 

[gambatte]

Mr Paul
.... on reflection.
I can tell we're not going to agree on this and could go backwards and forwards, when we bother probably ride perfectly safely. Disagreeing on only the point of can we mitigate for all eventualities?
Agree to disagree??

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I once, many moons ago, got offed by a pedestrian who stepped off the kerb. Mere slip of a girl. I was too fast and too close to the kerb. She was knocked out cold and suffered a busted wrist iirc. I was then set upon by a chivalrous WVM who, following, thought Xtmas had come early and he could act out all his rage against cyclists.

Clapham was a funny place in the noughties.

(He came second btw)

 

[fossyant]

There is too much analysis of this.

You adopt the Cylon approach to cycling, and scan the road. If you miss, then tough. Space invader points minus one. And a sore ass

 

[Mugshot]

Was there ever an update to this, did the ped get tracked down?

 

[LilacM3L]

Hi all,

Update is:

1. I was on crutches for about a month, in serious pain for two, off my bike for three, had to fork out £150 for repairs to my bike. On the injury side, as suspected, I turned out to have a completely ruptured ACL and a torn meniscus.

2. When I found out I was going to need another operation, I saw red. I staked out the bus stop where I'd seen the pedestrian a couple of times in the hopes of confronting her, but with no luck. Fortunately, standing in the cold for prolonged periods of time appears to have knocked some sense into me and I realised how crazy I was being. After all, there was no CCTV footage, I had no witness statements and the police categorically said they would refuse to help me get her contact details if I ever saw her again. All I could have done was yell at her...

3. I decided to channel my rage into something much healthier, like doing lots of rehab and spreading the word about the dangers of having a run-in with a pedestrian - in the hopes that others will know not to make the same mistakes I did.

4. To that end, my sob story was picked up by London Cyclist blog and fostered an good discussion.

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/what-happens-if-you-have-a-collision-with-a-pedestrian/

5. I had the operation to repair the damage to my knee two weeks ago. I'll be off the bike for another two months at least and it will be at least a year before I'm back to normal. I will probably have to wear a knee brace when I exercise for rest of my life.

I still haven't had the guts to go near the Aldwych junction again because I am afraid of what I might do if I see that ped again. Hopefully time will solve that and in the meantime, I have become a fervent believer in Karma.

And that, in a nutshell, is where we are.

Lila

 

[Hector]

That sucks, glad you are on the mend.

Whilst peds are top of the tree with the whole give way/priority malarky I do wish they would take more care. Some of them are just complete muppets.

Seeing your side of the story and the fact that this can happen makes me wonder again about an incident a couple of months ago. At a junction where people were crossing on a red man I was behind a cyclist who charged on through whilst keeping their finger firmly presssed on thier Airzound.

Harsh? Perhaps. Neccessary? Maybe after reading what you've been through. Because what happened to you could happen to anyone.

Hope the rehab goes well for you.

 

[benb]

That sucks, glad you are on the mend.

Whilst peds are top of the tree with the whole give way/priority malarky I do wish they would take more care. Some of them are just complete muppets.

Seeing your side of the story and the fact that this can happen makes me wonder again about an incident a couple of months ago. At a junction where people were crossing on a red man I was behind a cyclist who charged on through whilst keeping their finger firmly presssed on thier Airzound.

Harsh? Perhaps. Neccessary? Maybe after reading what you've been through. Because what happened to you could happen to anyone.

Hope the rehab goes well for you.

The red man is utterly irrelevant, as it's quite legal to cross regardless of what colour the light is.
If the pedestrians were crossing in plain view from some distance, and the cyclist blasted through them anyway, then he or she was being an obnoxious bully.

Obviously if they just leapt out straight into the cyclist's path so close that they couldn't stop, the pedestrians would be wrong, but in such a case I would expect the cyclist to be concentrating on avoiding them rather than blasting his airzound.

 

[HLaB]

Hi all,

Update is:

Snio

GWS