Caught Speeding

[Roadhump]

I do. I try bloody hard to drive well and apparently expecting motorists to do that is regarded as "pious" and you think it's socially acceptable to call it that. I feel this is a big part of the problem. We might as well hang signs up at the ports: Britain Welcomes Careless Drivers.

If I have offended you by my use of the word pious, I apologise. It was not meant to be offensive. In mitigation for any offence caused, and by way of explanation, I found your response “Sorry but what the fark were you concentrating on instead of driving?” rather “in your face” so didn’t think you would be offended by a similarly straight talking reply. Another example of internet debate going awry due to no face to face interpretation of body language etc, which is why I am reluctant to get involved in such debates here - I should have known better, as I said, please accept my apology for any offence caused.

I do not suggest speeding is socially acceptable at all, as I hoped my first post in this thread would demonstrate.

No, I can't. I'm not a natural driver (I suspect it's partly thinking too much about the mechanics of it for various reasons) so I have to concentrate on it. Sometimes I have to stop the chat with the passenger or ignore what's on the radio in order to give my undivided attention to what's happening on the road. I usually turn the radio off in towns and cities these days. And yet, my difficulty with that has never resulted in a speeding ticket and very rarely results in speeding... so I do question why it has for others and I suspect it's that you simply don't care enough for the lives of those outside the vehicle.

I also find that I have to stop chatting in certain situations and give my “undivided attention”, such as when at a roundabout or junction and assessing when it is safe to move, but that is one of the points I am trying to make, we aren’t capable of giving our undivided attention all the time, and when we don’t we are vulnerable to errors which could involve creeping over the speed limit. I note you say “....never resulted in a speeding ticket and very rarely results in speeding….” from which I infer that you have crept over the limit on very rare occasions. I just happened to get filmed on one of the very rare occasions I have crept over the speed limit in 38 years, so rather than a case “that you (I) simply don't care enough for the lives of those outside the vehicle” perhaps we are similar in our views about the dangers of speeding and arguing from a closer stance than we realise, just that we differ in our views on the influence of human characteristics and appropriate sanctions.

Disproportionate to what it should be. Of course speeding is not the only cause, but how often does extra speed make death and injury less likely and how often more likely?

Fair point

Speed cameras have been removed like they've gone out of fashion and it's taken some villagers years of struggle and some road deaths to get new ones installed. It may be different on smart motorways but we don't even have dumb motorways out here and I don't think it would be a good use of money to build them now.

Fair points about disappearing speed cameras (I was unaware of that), notwithstanding the vast number of people still zapped by cameras, I still bet it’s loads more than years ago when there were loads of traffic cops but they had to point Gatso guns at you, or follow you for a certain distance then go and get their speedos calibrated, and after allowing discretion for people not exceeding 10% + 2.

Speed awareness courses are like a non stop conveyor belt of minor speeding offenders because they don't work. In fact, they do the opposite: people now think they can speed a little bit and they'll only have to pay to sit through a course, instead of suffer the penalty points, fine and increased insurance.

If you have some research or suchlike to back that up, fine, I would consider myself enlightened, but as it stands it is no more than a sweeping generalisation, based on huge assumptions about the attitude of people going on SACs.

Because some of those people don't acknowledge their faults and endeavour to improve - they would rather call it "pious" to expect to drive better than they do and shoot like that. I suspect that's true of most of them and sooner or later they'll be speeding again because they feel everyone does. The evidence for them that I've seen seems very weak, such as low reoffending rates within six months (what about something more realistic like five years?) and drivers claiming to have changed their attitude (well, they would say that, wouldn't they?).

That word pious again, sorry about that, but as you seem to attach those negative attitudes to me, following my use of that word, I would ask you to read my earlier posts where I offer no support for speeding, I just have different views on the mindset of lower level offenders than you, and different ideas about sanctions.

We could do with some research and evidence about the effectiveness of the SAC really, but like most other areas of wrongdoing, surely some do and some don’t respond positively. If they don’t respond positively and repeat their offending, escalate the sanction in the same way that sentences get tougher (or are supposed to) in other areas of offending. I might support making the escalation to disqualification quicker than it is now, and for serious cases it can already be imposed on first offence. I just think one-off offenders, and even those who's offences are a long time apart, deserve less severe sanctions than those who's records demonstrate irresponsibility.

 

[Drago]

Being a careful, conscientious driver is pious?

You break the law, you break the law. If you run over some old biddy while speeding and kill her it matters not to her, her family, or anyone else if you're a repeat speeder. Society suffers as a result of your actions then and there.

Don't speed, don't drink drive, don't fanny about with mobile phones. Its the easiest of the easy, and someone cant carry out such an easy task to a safe standard then they shouldn't be on the road.

I take pride in driving with skill, diligence and courtesy at all times. That's not being pious, its being a responsible member of society and showing the restpect towards the safety of other people that I would want them to show me and mine

 

[Roadhump]

Its very easy to do. If you don't have your Eminem choons pumping from your 8 track at max volume then your brain will very accurately and completely subliminally keep you at the correct speed from engine tone alone, negating the need to look at the speedo more than the occasional glance.

Electric car drivers may have a harder time, but they all have HUD options for that reason. Indeed, you you're one of those people prone to momentary lapses you can buy HUD kits that plug into the OBD socket for under £50.

Obviously the environment you create in your own vehicle has a potential effect on your ability to concentrate, and you can do things to help yourself, but nothing is foolproof and people will inevitably lose concentration occasionally.

Despite my disagreements with mjr over this, I do think there is a lot that can be done to help minimise potential for speeding. Average speed cameras, although also not foolproof I feel should be rolled out more. Technology has some potential that I am surprised hasn't been pushed more. E.g. if my Tom Tom satnav can tell me the speed limit of the road I am on, then light up a red warning sign if my car exceeds that limit, why can't cars have an inbuilt system that issues a verbal warning in the same way? A legal requirement for such a system would remove a lot of scope for wiggle room. Perhaps that is what you are getting at re electric cars, but I don't know what a HUD or an OBD is. Perhaps a case of your old habits dying hard, the police being rife with TLAs and all that.

 

[mjr]

If I have offended you by my use of the word pious, I apologise. ... I just think one-off offenders, and even those who's offences are a long time apart, deserve less severe sanctions than those who's records demonstrate irresponsibility.

Not offended but I do mind advocating legal motoring being called pious. And yes I have sped, most notably in order to pass the driving test, as I am sure I admitted before... but 10%+2 seems like more than a slip to me.

I agree we need some less severe sanctions than the current ones which are politically unattractive to use too often... but I think that should be short bans rather than questionable courses. So first offenders might have to take a few days holiday if they need to drive for their job but those are arguably the motorists who should be most strongly encouraged to drive legally.

(Edited to add missing word.)

 

[davefb]

Just dont do what me and my wife did after the speed awareness courses. ( my first speeding ticket)

get caught less than a month later.....................

 

[EltonFrog]

I am curious to know why @Herbie hasn't been back since the original post.

 

[Dan B]

I am curious to know why @Herbie hasn't been back since the original post.

Merely a momentary lack of attention to it causing him to creep over the post limited

 

[Drago]

Nothing is foolproof?

Then how have I managed 31 years with no tickets, convictions, and only 1 non fault accident?

My Dad, 71 years old, 54 year unblemished record.

My Mum, also 71. She gave up driving a few years ago, but until that point hand been driving since her early twenties without incident.

Legions of people do it. Stop making excuses, Mr Hump.

 

[Roadhump]

Being a careful, conscientious driver is pious?

You break the law, you break the law. If you run over some old biddy while speeding and kill her it matters not to her, her family, or anyone else if you're a repeat speeder. Society suffers as a result of your actions then and there.

Don't speed, don't drink drive, don't fanny about with mobile phones. Its the easiest of the easy, and someone cant carry out such an easy task to a safe standard then they shouldn't be on the road.

I take pride in driving with skill, diligence and courtesy at all times. That's not being pious, its being a responsible member of society and showing the restpect towards the safety of other people that I would want them to show me and mine

May I explain, please.

I agree with all that. However, I didn't say being a careful driver was pious, I applaud people's attempts to drive to the highest standards. I was referring to the specific reply by mjr. I find it unrealistic that someone would never suffer a lapse of concentration or make an error of judgement that could lead to them committing a minor speeding offence. For that reason I found his response to my post somewhat superior and self righteously complacent, hence my use of the word. He appeared to be offended by that and I offered an apology. If you or anyone else is offended my that word, I extend that apology.

I still maintain my view that anyone is likely at some point in their life to have a brainfart and do something uncharacteristic, and that if someone claims they never err badly enough to drive to a lower than normal standard, they are either kidding themselves and / or are complacent, perhaps even arrogant. If people differ, I respect their right to their opinion.

 

[smutchin]

May I explain, please

If you want to keep digging...

 

[Roadhump]

Nothing is foolproof?

Then how have I managed 31 years with no tickets, convictions, and only 1 non fault accident?

My Dad, 71 years old, 54 year unblemished record.

My Mum, also 71. She gave up driving a few years ago, but until that point hand been driving since her early twenties without incident.

Legions of people do it. Stop making excuses, Mr Hump.

I'm not making excuses. Until 2012 I had 33 years without tickets, convictions and only one minor (non injury) parking bump. You've got 2 years to catch up with my record, stop being complacent Mr. Drago .

I stated in my first post here that I accept the fault was mine, it matters not a jot to me now, I feel cool that I take as responsible an approach to driving as the next person. I just don't believe it is as clear cut as you suggest.

Anyway, off for my Monday night pint now, where's my car keys? I am only joking....honestly!!

 

[Roadhump]

If you want to keep digging...

Whatever you say

 

[smutchin]

I take as responsible an approach to driving as the next person.

You set your standards that low?

We should all aspire to be much better than the average standard of driving, which is pretty poor, tbh. Although of course most drivers do already believe themselves to be of above average ability, which is one of those oxymoronic quirks of statistics.

 

[Tim Hall]

Perhaps that is what you are getting at re electric cars, but I don't know what a HUD or an OBD is. Perhaps a case of your old habits dying hard, the police being rife with TLAs and all that.

HUD = Head up display (speed and other info projected into your field of view by bouncing it off the windscreen, or as Wiki says " is any transparent display that presents data without requiring users to look away from their usual viewpoints." BMW* use them on some models i believe
OBD = On board diagnostic (the port which the mechanic plugs a gizmo before telling you it's going to cost an arm and a leg to fix your car)
BMW = Bayrischer Mist-Wagen
HTH

 

[smutchin]

HTH

LOL