That was the point..... there was a sign (30) that was totally obscured... directly followed by the camera
Caught Speeding
- Thread starter Herbie
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That was the point..... there was a sign (30) that was totally obscured... directly followed by the camera
[QUOTE 4800078, member: 9609"]
My problem with the speed awareness course is it has little deterrent affect and is seen by many now as a last chance to avoid the penalty points and fine. It may do good for those who attend the course but in the grand scale of things the amount of people who attend these courses in miniscule, and of course they have to commit the offence to get the message. Whereas a £1,000 fine + loss of licence for 6 months issued to one person for 35 in a 30 would have a massive affect on millions of drivers in one go.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the first part, I attended a course in February, I had been caught slightly over 30mph. Of course everybody there with me (maybe a 100 people) were there for one reason only, to avoid the points and subsequent insurance hike. And are they "right" people anyway? To be invited on a course (aka opportuniy to avoid punishment) you have to have committed a minor motoring transgression.
The course was mind numbingly boring, if I hadn't had 3 vehicles to insure then I'd have taken the fine and points. As it was the course cost the same amount af the fine and I lost days wages, a hefty hit for a first minor transgression in 35 years driving. I don't believe the young kids on the course were taking a blind bit of notice.
However your £1000+ fine & loss of licence suggestion would not work. It is very expensive for kids to get on the roads as it is, that is why so many don't bother with licenses or insurance and drive "pool" cars and the results are a nightmare locally.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...._veers_onto_wrong_side_of_road/?ref=mrb&lp=15
My problem with the speed awareness course is it has little deterrent affect and is seen by many now as a last chance to avoid the penalty points and fine. It may do good for those who attend the course but in the grand scale of things the amount of people who attend these courses in miniscule, and of course they have to commit the offence to get the message. Whereas a £1,000 fine + loss of licence for 6 months issued to one person for 35 in a 30 would have a massive affect on millions of drivers in one go.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the first part, I attended a course in February, I had been caught slightly over 30mph. Of course everybody there with me (maybe a 100 people) were there for one reason only, to avoid the points and subsequent insurance hike. And are they "right" people anyway? To be invited on a course (aka opportuniy to avoid punishment) you have to have committed a minor motoring transgression.
The course was mind numbingly boring, if I hadn't had 3 vehicles to insure then I'd have taken the fine and points. As it was the course cost the same amount af the fine and I lost days wages, a hefty hit for a first minor transgression in 35 years driving. I don't believe the young kids on the course were taking a blind bit of notice.
However your £1000+ fine & loss of licence suggestion would not work. It is very expensive for kids to get on the roads as it is, that is why so many don't bother with licenses or insurance and drive "pool" cars and the results are a nightmare locally.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co...._veers_onto_wrong_side_of_road/?ref=mrb&lp=15
Roadhump
Time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted
- Location
- The flatlands of South West Lancs
[QUOTE 4800078, member: 9609"]
My problem with the speed awareness course is it has little deterrent affect and is seen by many now as a last chance to avoid the penalty points and fine. It may do good for those who attend the course but in the grand scale of things the amount of people who attend these courses in miniscule, and of course they have to commit the offence to get the message. Whereas a £1,000 fine + loss of licence for 6 months issued to one person for 35 in a 30 would have a massive affect on millions of drivers in one go.[/QUOTE]
Mixed views about what you say here. Firstly, I am with the anti-speeders; a small bit of research shows that the numbers of people killed and injured in the roads outstrips the numbers killed and inured as a result of violent crime by 3 or 4 times. It might be a decreasing ratio now with improved road safety, safer vehicles and suchlike, but the potential for damage by poor driving, speeding etc seems to be massively underestimated, so I am all for a consistent and robust approach.
As for the effectiveness of the Speed Awareness Course, and the potential for your draconian punishment proposal, I think the course can have a positive impact, and the heavy punishment is unrealistic and would be unfair on minor, one-off offenders.
In 38 years of driving I have been caught speeding once, five years ago when a mobile camera zapped me doing 57 in a 50 limit on the Snake Pass. I was at the bottom end of the 10% + 2 and chose the course. My case was one of a fallible human being having a momentary lapse in concentration, not one of recklessness. I am not saying human fallibility should be a "get away with speeding card" and I couldn't complain if I had been fined, or at having to attend the course as an alternative. But a massive fine and loss of licence, and possibly job would be hugely disproportionate and would wholly ignore previous good driving conduct. As much as it would be a deterrent, it would not remove human fallibility and errors. Plus, let's face it, as Drago says, it would be political suicide so isn't going to happen.
Personally, I think the course is a good thing for the right people. It certainly made me more aware of the potential for concentration lapses and I think I am less likely to speed now as a result, but even with my best intentions, I have found myself creeping over the limit occasionally and had to check my speed since. I do agree that the course is seen by some as a get out though, and some people are allowed on when they shouldn't be; one bloke on my course had 14 points, for various offences (none were speeding within the previous 3 years) and had been allowed to keep his licence after a hardship plea, but despite that was allowed on a SAC, which is ridiculous.
It's a bit like a carrot and stick approach IMHO, not perfect, but for me and many others the carrot worked whereas for some it doesn't so the stick needs to come out.
My problem with the speed awareness course is it has little deterrent affect and is seen by many now as a last chance to avoid the penalty points and fine. It may do good for those who attend the course but in the grand scale of things the amount of people who attend these courses in miniscule, and of course they have to commit the offence to get the message. Whereas a £1,000 fine + loss of licence for 6 months issued to one person for 35 in a 30 would have a massive affect on millions of drivers in one go.[/QUOTE]
Mixed views about what you say here. Firstly, I am with the anti-speeders; a small bit of research shows that the numbers of people killed and injured in the roads outstrips the numbers killed and inured as a result of violent crime by 3 or 4 times. It might be a decreasing ratio now with improved road safety, safer vehicles and suchlike, but the potential for damage by poor driving, speeding etc seems to be massively underestimated, so I am all for a consistent and robust approach.
As for the effectiveness of the Speed Awareness Course, and the potential for your draconian punishment proposal, I think the course can have a positive impact, and the heavy punishment is unrealistic and would be unfair on minor, one-off offenders.
In 38 years of driving I have been caught speeding once, five years ago when a mobile camera zapped me doing 57 in a 50 limit on the Snake Pass. I was at the bottom end of the 10% + 2 and chose the course. My case was one of a fallible human being having a momentary lapse in concentration, not one of recklessness. I am not saying human fallibility should be a "get away with speeding card" and I couldn't complain if I had been fined, or at having to attend the course as an alternative. But a massive fine and loss of licence, and possibly job would be hugely disproportionate and would wholly ignore previous good driving conduct. As much as it would be a deterrent, it would not remove human fallibility and errors. Plus, let's face it, as Drago says, it would be political suicide so isn't going to happen.
Personally, I think the course is a good thing for the right people. It certainly made me more aware of the potential for concentration lapses and I think I am less likely to speed now as a result, but even with my best intentions, I have found myself creeping over the limit occasionally and had to check my speed since. I do agree that the course is seen by some as a get out though, and some people are allowed on when they shouldn't be; one bloke on my course had 14 points, for various offences (none were speeding within the previous 3 years) and had been allowed to keep his licence after a hardship plea, but despite that was allowed on a SAC, which is ridiculous.
It's a bit like a carrot and stick approach IMHO, not perfect, but for me and many others the carrot worked whereas for some it doesn't so the stick needs to come out.
[QUOTE 4800178, member: 9609"]No, why ?
was this the policing hiding in the bushes with a speed gun, or was it one of those massive hi-viz yellow speed cameras with all the tell tale road markings. Fair enough if it was the former.[/QUOTE]
Nope - big yellow thing, but also partially obscured as the maintenance of vegetation along hers is not good
was this the policing hiding in the bushes with a speed gun, or was it one of those massive hi-viz yellow speed cameras with all the tell tale road markings. Fair enough if it was the former.[/QUOTE]
Nope - big yellow thing, but also partially obscured as the maintenance of vegetation along hers is not good
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
That doesn't always work in a mags court. Depends how switched in the CPS prosecuter is. As a driver you should be able to identify the prevailing speed limit from the surrounding. Urban or rural, single or dual carriageway, distance apart of then street lighting etc. I've seen the obscured or missing sign defence fail more times than it has worked.
Tanis8472
Guru
They are few and far between around here. Also has anyone noticed the limit signs seem to be getting smaller?
Roadhump
Time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted
- Location
- The flatlands of South West Lancs
People had told me before going on the course that it was 4 hours of mind numbing tedium, but I thought if I have to spend 4 hours there, I may as well make it as less boring as possible so listened, participated and found it wasn't as bad as people said it would be. It did make me want to make sure I was more careful as well.
Tanis8472
Guru
[QUOTE 4800211, member: 45"]The repeaters are smaller.[/QUOTE]
Nope, (yes the repeaters are too) the actual signs around here are definitely smaller. Some are not much bigger than repeaters.
Nope, (yes the repeaters are too) the actual signs around here are definitely smaller. Some are not much bigger than repeaters.
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
One speeding offence in a 45 year driving career isn't bad, pity she never got around to obtaining a driving licence
.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/..._car_without_a_licence_for_45_years/?ref=ebln
.http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/..._car_without_a_licence_for_45_years/?ref=ebln
Tanis8472
Guru
Nothing seems to concentrate the mind (too much imo) than gps trackers.
My work van has one. I find myself looking far too often at the speedo instead of the road ahead as going over the limit will get me a disciplinary.
I dont (99.5%) as a rule speed anyway. I just cant be bothered to go fast anywhere. I much prefer to cruise.
My work van has one. I find myself looking far too often at the speedo instead of the road ahead as going over the limit will get me a disciplinary.
I dont (99.5%) as a rule speed anyway. I just cant be bothered to go fast anywhere. I much prefer to cruise.
DaveReading
Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
- Location
- Reading, obvs
By the time you've twigged that the repeater signs have stopped repeating, you're already speeding.
Tanis8472
Guru
Yep, know about most of those. I have just noticed over the years that certain signs when they have been replaced are the smallest permissible.
Some used to quite large which allowed plenty of time to adjust speed.
Just an observation
They have a habit of concentrating the mind. After an initial period of over-concentrating on the speedo I've largely got used to it now and relaxed back to driving on feel. I tend to view the box as a good thing, it will stop the temptations of youth for my lads and I feel happier knowing they know it's there and monitoring them.