CeramicSpeed Bearings

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Rob3rt

Man or Moose!
Location
Manchester
Pull the seals out of your normal bearings and you are most of the way there for a tiny fraction of the cost!
 

oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
Pull the seals out of your normal bearings and you are most of the way there for a tiny fraction of the cost!
Except that water and muck will then get in and grind away the surfaces, and then.... Either stick with conventional bearings (complete with seals!) or do the job properly. It depends what level you are at, as to whether you see changing as worth it. For the average rider it might be an expensive way to achieve not a lot. For the full effect every bearing needs to be changed. Chainset, wheels, gear mechs, the lot. Not cheap!
 

gds58

Über Member
Location
Colchester
Ceramic bearings are definitely better. It is a harder material than steel and as such it can be manufactured to finer tolerances so the bearings will run smoother and faster. They require a different lubrication which is lighter in consistency so overall they do make a difference but they are at least three times the cost of a conventional bearing. Put them in Bottom Brackets and wheels and you will get the biggest gains, and maybe pedals if it is possible to find correct replacements.
Graham
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
As overcoming wind resistance is about 97% of the power requirement needed to ride at any significant speed I'd say ceramic bearings are likely to make bugger all difference in the real world.
 
I changed the bearing on the wheels of the Catrike as they get gunged up.. a whole new feel, less servicing and have lasted about three times as long as the last set of bearings (and still going)
 

gds58

Über Member
Location
Colchester
As overcoming wind resistance is about 97% of the power requirement needed to ride at any significant speed I'd say ceramic bearings are likely to make bugger all difference in the real world.
Where on earth did you get that figure of 97% from!! It's actually around 40% of power required is to overcome air resistance. It has been shown in proper test conditions that ceramic bearings DO make a realistic difference. The choice that has to be made though, is whether or not you feel that the significantly increased expense is justified by your own specific needs. For example, in this years 10 mile National Time Trial, Matt Bottrill won by 2 seconds from Ryan Mullen. If it were that Bottrill uses Ceramic and Mullen doesn't, then the expense is totally justified. Do you see my point? I accept that this is an extreme example but if it means that a couple of seconds in a '10' can be the difference between winning or losing, beating a PB or maybe getting under the magic 20 min' mark then it's worth it - every time! Simple answer is, if you can afford it then do it.
Graham
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Where on earth did you get that figure of 97% from!! It's actually around 40% of power required is to overcome air resistance. It has been shown in proper test conditions that ceramic bearings DO make a realistic difference. The choice that has to be made though, is whether or not you feel that the significantly increased expense is justified by your own specific needs. For example, in this years 10 mile National Time Trial, Matt Bottrill won by 2 seconds from Ryan Mullen. If it were that Bottrill uses Ceramic and Mullen doesn't, then the expense is totally justified. Do you see my point? I accept that this is an extreme example but if it means that a couple of seconds in a '10' can be the difference between winning or losing, beating a PB or maybe getting under the magic 20 min' mark then it's worth it - every time! Simple answer is, if you can afford it then do it.
Graham
I thought it was data from Mike Burrows on the recent 'speed' programme. In any case it's a better figure than 40% which is waaay off the mark.
For most mortals the accuracy if their tyre pressure gauge or the clothes they are wearing are more likely to have a bigger impact than ceramic bearings.
It's a very marginal gain is my point.
 

gds58

Über Member
Location
Colchester
It's a very marginal gain is my point.
Agreed, but wasn't that exactly what worked for Team GB and Team SKY to very good effect. If you can achieve a number of 'marginal' gains then it ceases to be marginal, which was my point!
Whatever the percentages might be it still remains that there are gains to be made but you have to decide upon their value for money. Nobody else can make that decision for you.
 

gds58

Über Member
Location
Colchester
I thought it was data from Mike Burrows on the recent 'speed' programme. In any case it's a better figure than 40% which is waaay off the mark.
Figures and data can be made to mean whatever you need them to and bicycle and component manufacturers will use this to their best advantage. It takes very little effort to make a bike move forwards as air resistance is low but as the speed increases and most importantly when it is above (approximately) 22mph then the effort required increases exponentially until it reaches a point which represents 80-90% of input which is required to maintain that speed. Overall, from standstill upwards the figure of 40% is representative of the average percentage of input which is used to reach and maintain speeds in excess of 22mph. Whatever the 'numbers' are doesn't matter, it still remains that anything which can be introduced in order to reduce resistance no matter where it comes from, has got to be of benefit. It will however, be of significant detriment to your bank balance, but you know what they say "If it has wheels or a skirt, you can't afford it!!" :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Agreed, but wasn't that exactly what worked for Team GB and Team SKY to very good effect. If you can achieve a number of 'marginal' gains then it ceases to be marginal, which was my point!
Whatever the percentages might be it still remains that there are gains to be made but you have to decide upon their value for money. Nobody else can make that decision for you.
Of course marginal gains have a value, but there is a big difference between a gain that benefits a professional at the top of their game under the most ideal circumstances and the benefit for the majority of us sub-optimal mortals here.
 

oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
Just about the air resistance thing. The resistance increases approximately as the square of speed. Thus 20km/hr, resistance is 400 units, at 50km/hr, 2500 units. Whichis why you can potter along all day but speed is much harder to maintain. Then of course the warmer the air, the lower the resistance, which is why indoor velodromes are generally hot (up to 28/29c). Moral - for an hour record, go indoors and turn the heating up fall blast. Plus get all the marginal gains you can because they all add up to a significant one. All of which applies to performance issues, for everyday riding you pays your money and takes your choice, if you like riding decent stuff then (sadly nowadays) it has to be paid for. Team supplied kit does not come to long retired old blokes...:sad:
 

gds58

Über Member
Location
Colchester
Of course marginal gains have a value, but there is a big difference between a gain that benefits a professional at the top of their game under the most ideal circumstances and the benefit for the majority of us sub-optimal mortals here.
Wow suddenly the penny has dropped!! that's exactly what I have been saying - you have to weigh up the benefit against cost which for those of us who have to pay for it, is always going to be a contributory factor. It took a while but eventually we got there!!
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Wow suddenly the penny has dropped!! that's exactly what I have been saying - you have to weigh up the benefit against cost which for those of us who have to pay for it, is always going to be a contributory factor. It took a while but eventually we got there!!
No need for the sarcasm thanks ....
I always understood. your point, but you seemed to failed with mine and that is even if the cost was affordable the performance benefit for most mortals will be so small as to be of little or no value ....
We live in a world where we are sold a lot of 'performance gains' or improved x, y and z where the so called 'science' doesn't apply in the real world, but people buy into the hype (for a variety of reasons - not just a lack of critical thinking) but we don't get the benefit we thought we'd paid for. The great thing about places like this is that we get alternative critiques and occasional reality checks.
 
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