CeramicSpeed Bearings

[gds58]

Does anyone have any experience of these? http://ceramicspeed.com/sport/why-ceramicspeed/save-6-to-9-watts/

Do they work or are they a waste of money?

Any feedback gratefully received....

Answer to Q1: YES
Answer to Q2: If (like me) you have lots of ability and lots of money: NO
Answer to Q2: If (like others) you have little ability and little money: YES

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I surfed a bit on the Ceramicspeed website. Lots of BS there. They produce no hard data on their findings only pictures and graphs without units or reference data. Pure marketing nonsense.

They make claims such as 9% improvement but don't say over what. They don't say whether those bearings are hybrids or pure ceramics although they hint at them being hybrid steel/ceramic bearings. They claim the bearings are hand made. Bearings are not tapestries, they're best made and assembled by machines.
They make claims such as 100% smoother, x-much harder etc etc. They claim their ceramic (Silicon nitride) balls are harder than other balls made from the same material. It goes on and on.

9% improvement: It is easy to achieve such a figure. You don't state the load under which the bearing works, you don't state the base reference point which could be a tricycle bearing made from square balls.

Hybrid bearings have steel races and ceramic balls. The ceramic is much harder than the ball and easily damages the race. Although the balls survive, the races, once damaged renders the bearing useless. Ceramic bearings have low durability in real-life bicycle use.
Bearing smoothness is measured in microns and expressed as Class. A class 100 bearing has imperfections that are no larger than 100 microns. A class 20 bearing has imperfections no more than 20 microns and so on. A good steel bearing is typically class 10 and an average ceramic bearing is class 5. This company claims its bearings are 100% smoother than the competition i.e. Class 2.5. Nonsense. It's own claim is Class 3, so why lie elsewhere on the website?

Generic bicycle bearing balls are typically class 100 and super smooth Shimano balls are class. Campagnolo balls are class 10. As you go smoother, the returns diminish but cost escalates exponentially.

Ceramic bearings were designed for fast-spinning applications such as turbo chargers which reach 100 000 rpm. At such speeds the centrilfugal force of the balls deform them and they start to lose contact with the races and then self-destruct. Lighter balls solve the problem. Turbos also generate very high heat and the ceramic copes with that. However, bicycles don't go that fast and class 20 or 10 is just fine. I cannot picture a scenario where replacing all the bearings in a quality groupset with ceramic ones will save 9 Watts. Without data I will continue to disbelieve it.

As someone pointed out, the power required to keep a body moving through air goes up by the square of the speed due to wind resistance. At about 40 kph the slightest aero adjustment to the rider will save a minute and many adjustments and mods, aero helmets and clothing saves many more minutes. At higher speed the savings are even more. These high speed savings are only applicable to solo time-triallists, not pack riders who mostly hide from the wind. For the price of a bearing replacement you can afford a good time trial coach and bike setup and buy an aero suit.

The argument that 2 seconds can make or break the race is only valid if the claims made by the bearing companies are correct but I've seen their little pseudo experiments at trade shows and if you know what to look for, it is clear that they are rigged.

Fortunately for companies like this, there is no species of human more superstitious than the professional or serious amateur athlete.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I surfed a bit on the Ceramicspeed website. Lots of BS there. They produce no hard data on their findings only pictures and graphs without units or reference data. Pure marketing nonsense.

They make claims such as 9% improvement but don't say over what. They don't say whether those bearings are hybrids or pure ceramics although they hint at them being hybrid steel/ceramic bearings. They claim the bearings are hand made. Bearings are not tapestries, they're best made and assembled by machines.
They make claims such as 100% smoother, x-much harder etc etc. They claim their ceramic (Silicon nitride) balls are harder than other balls made from the same material. It goes on and on.

9% improvement: It is easy to achieve such a figure. You don't state the load under which the bearing works, you don't state the base reference point which could be a tricycle bearing made from square balls.

Hybrid bearings have steel races and ceramic balls. The ceramic is much harder than the ball and easily damages the race. Although the balls survive, the races, once damaged renders the bearing useless. Ceramic bearings have low durability in real-life bicycle use.
Bearing smoothness is measured in microns and expressed as Class. A class 100 bearing has imperfections that are no larger than 100 microns. A class 20 bearing has imperfections no more than 20 microns and so on. A good steel bearing is typically class 10 and an average ceramic bearing is class 5. This company claims its bearings are 100% smoother than the competition i.e. Class 2.5. Nonsense. It's own claim is Class 3, so why lie elsewhere on the website?

Generic bicycle bearing balls are typically class 100 and super smooth Shimano balls are class. Campagnolo balls are class 10. As you go smoother, the returns diminish but cost escalates exponentially.

Ceramic bearings were designed for fast-spinning applications such as turbo chargers which reach 100 000 rpm. At such speeds the centrilfugal force of the balls deform them and they start to lose contact with the races and then self-destruct. Lighter balls solve the problem. Turbos also generate very high heat and the ceramic copes with that. However, bicycles don't go that fast and class 20 or 10 is just fine. I cannot picture a scenario where replacing all the bearings in a quality groupset with ceramic ones will save 9 Watts. Without data I will continue to disbelieve it.

As someone pointed out, the power required to keep a body moving through air goes up by the square of the speed due to wind resistance. At about 40 kph the slightest aero adjustment to the rider will save a minute and many adjustments and mods, aero helmets and clothing saves many more minutes. At higher speed the savings are even more. These high speed savings are only applicable to solo time-triallists, not pack riders who mostly hide from the wind. For the price of a bearing replacement you can afford a good time trial coach and bike setup and buy an aero suit.

The argument that 2 seconds can make or break the race is only valid if the claims made by the bearing companies are correct but I've seen their little pseudo experiments at trade shows and if you know what to look for, it is clear that they are rigged.

Fortunately for companies like this, there is no species of human more superstitious than the professional or serious amateur athlete.

Thanks.

 

[gds58]

I surfed a bit on the Ceramicspeed website. Lots of BS there. They produce no hard data on their findings only pictures and graphs without units or reference data. Pure marketing nonsense.

They make claims such as 9% improvement but don't say over what. They don't say whether those bearings are hybrids or pure ceramics although they hint at them being hybrid steel/ceramic bearings. They claim the bearings are hand made. Bearings are not tapestries, they're best made and assembled by machines.
They make claims such as 100% smoother, x-much harder etc etc. They claim their ceramic (Silicon nitride) balls are harder than other balls made from the same material. It goes on and on.

9% improvement: It is easy to achieve such a figure. You don't state the load under which the bearing works, you don't state the base reference point which could be a tricycle bearing made from square balls.

Hybrid bearings have steel races and ceramic balls. The ceramic is much harder than the ball and easily damages the race. Although the balls survive, the races, once damaged renders the bearing useless. Ceramic bearings have low durability in real-life bicycle use.
Bearing smoothness is measured in microns and expressed as Class. A class 100 bearing has imperfections that are no larger than 100 microns. A class 20 bearing has imperfections no more than 20 microns and so on. A good steel bearing is typically class 10 and an average ceramic bearing is class 5. This company claims its bearings are 100% smoother than the competition i.e. Class 2.5. Nonsense. It's own claim is Class 3, so why lie elsewhere on the website?

Generic bicycle bearing balls are typically class 100 and super smooth Shimano balls are class. Campagnolo balls are class 10. As you go smoother, the returns diminish but cost escalates exponentially.

Ceramic bearings were designed for fast-spinning applications such as turbo chargers which reach 100 000 rpm. At such speeds the centrilfugal force of the balls deform them and they start to lose contact with the races and then self-destruct. Lighter balls solve the problem. Turbos also generate very high heat and the ceramic copes with that. However, bicycles don't go that fast and class 20 or 10 is just fine. I cannot picture a scenario where replacing all the bearings in a quality groupset with ceramic ones will save 9 Watts. Without data I will continue to disbelieve it.

As someone pointed out, the power required to keep a body moving through air goes up by the square of the speed due to wind resistance. At about 40 kph the slightest aero adjustment to the rider will save a minute and many adjustments and mods, aero helmets and clothing saves many more minutes. At higher speed the savings are even more. These high speed savings are only applicable to solo time-triallists, not pack riders who mostly hide from the wind. For the price of a bearing replacement you can afford a good time trial coach and bike setup and buy an aero suit.

The argument that 2 seconds can make or break the race is only valid if the claims made by the bearing companies are correct but I've seen their little pseudo experiments at trade shows and if you know what to look for, it is clear that they are rigged.

Fortunately for companies like this, there is no species of human more superstitious than the professional or serious amateur athlete.

Wow such knowledge from a man who, on another thread, didn't even know why a deep section aero wheel could be a hindrance when climbing or how wheel stiffness is experienced when riding.
Isn't the 'copy and paste' function a wonderful invention? makes anybody seem like a University Professor!!

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Wow such knowledge from a man who, on another thread, didn't even know why a deep section aero wheel could be a hindrance when climbing or how wheel stiffness is experienced when riding.
Isn't the 'copy and paste' function a wonderful invention? makes anybody seem like a University Professor!!

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding wheels but you do seem like you have some sort of stalking obsession with me. You are pretty creepy. As for the second acquisation, I'll take that as an accusation of plagiarism. I suggest you either prove that I've plagiarized something or you withdraw your statement.

 

[raleighnut]

Ooooh,

 

[gds58]

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding wheels but you do seem like you have some sort of stalking obsession with me. You are pretty creepy. As for the second acquisation, I'll take that as an accusation of plagiarism. I suggest you either prove that I've plagiarized something or you withdraw your statement.

Clearly you suffer from short memory syndrome as well, here's a link to your comments on the 'Aero Wheels' thread just a few days ago: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-racing-aero-wheels.173743/
Regardng your comments concerning me 'stalking' you that is quite the most bizarre thing I've heard lately! Yes I have made some comments/criticisms of your posts and comments but strangley YOU have 'liked' my comments and posts which confused me no end. Your inconsistency is somewhat baffling and I am not the first to make these observations about your posts. It seems that you have little actual knowledge of these subjects but you like to stir things up a bit with your comments when all I'm trying to do is to help the OP by giving knowledgeable and informed answers on the matter. I stand by all my comments and withdraw none of them. By the way, what exactly is an 'acquisation' (second line of your quoted post) I'm reasonably well educated but I haven't come across this word before, is it something you have been accused of acquiring. Please enlighten me!

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Clearly you suffer from short memory syndrome as well, here's a link to your comments on the 'Aero Wheels' thread just a few days ago: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-racing-aero-wheels.173743/
Regardng your comments concerning me 'stalking' you that is quite the most bizarre thing I've heard lately! Yes I have made some comments/criticisms of your posts and comments but strangley YOU have 'liked' my comments and posts which confused me no end. Your inconsistency is somewhat baffling and I am not the first to make these observations about your posts. It seems that you have little actual knowledge of these subjects but you like to stir things up a bit with your comments when all I'm trying to do is to help the OP by giving knowledgeable and informed answers on the matter. I stand by all my comments and withdraw none of them. By the way, what exactly is an 'acquisation' (second line of your quoted post) I'm reasonably well educated but I haven't come across this word before, is it something you have been accused of acquiring. Please enlighten me!

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-racing-aero-wheels.173743/page-2
There, go and play.
Every internet flame about spelling contains at least one spelling error. Speaking of which, what is Regardng? I'm still awaiting proof of my alleged plagiarism.
I still find your photographic memory of every Like and Comment I make pretty creepy. Brrrrr.

 

[Citius]

Does anyone have any experience of these? http://ceramicspeed.com/sport/why-ceramicspeed/save-6-to-9-watts/

Do they work or are they a waste of money?

Any feedback gratefully received....

Do they work? As bearings, yes.
Are they a waste of money? Yes - especially if you are expecting to go measurably faster after fitting them. But they won't make you any slower, either.

 

[gds58]

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/road-racing-aero-wheels.173743/page-2
There, go and play.
Every internet flame about spelling contains at least one spelling error. Speaking of which, what is Regardng? I'm still awaiting proof of my alleged plagiarism.
I still find your photographic memory of every Like and Comment I make pretty creepy. Brrrrr.

Oooh dear, I don't need to have a 'photographic memory' for these things as there's a clever little 'Alerts' tab at the top right corner of this page that has a little red flag on it every time somebody 'likes' or quotes one of my posts. It's dead clever as it means we don't need to go stalking anybody to see when they have liked our posts. Modern technology eh, ain't it great! Thanks for your interest in me by the way.
All the best, G