Chain waxing question.

[PpPete]

I use a "home-brew" - paraffin wax with PTFE powder (environmentally not the best choice, but I'm still using up a bag of powder I bought several years ago).
I run two bikes with waxed chains using this mix, both with 11 speed mechanical Shimano 105 with 11-32 cassettes.
For each bike I have three chains and I swop them out as soon as they get noisy or look grubby - then clean and rewax a few chains at once.

Bike A) which gets used only in good weather on dry roads, has 105 cranks with AB oval chainrings to make it into a 46/30 sub compact and uses KMC X11EL chains
Bike B) which gets used if raining or if roads going to be damp, has an Ultegra triple crankset tansformed into a 44/28 sub-compact by using only inner and middle positions, a chainguard in place of the outer ring, and various spacers to re-optimize the chain line. I run basic YBN chains on this one.

I've chosen to use different brands of chain so as to keep a distinction when rewaxing a batch of chains, as the two bikes need different length chains.

So here is the question I put to the assembled wisdom:
Why do the KMC chains on bike A get noisy in 200km or less, whereas the YBN chains on bike B are still running quietly & smoothly at 500km ?
Anyone else got experience of different brands of chain lasting different intervals despite similar waxing processes ?
Or could it be the alternate stretch and relax on the chain due to the ovals chainrings?
Or am I doing my rewaxing at the wrong phase of the moon?

By the way, if you want to criticize my choice of chainrings, or dispute the use of wax over oil for chains - please don't bother to reply on this thread.

 

[88robb]

That's a common observation. KMC chains, especially the EL model, have a reputation for being noisier with wax than other brands. Their internal tolerances and surface finish just seem to shed wax faster.

The oval chainrings definitely contribute. The constant speed change puts more stress on the wax film, breaking it down quicker than the consistent pull of round rings.

Stick with the YBN or try a Shimano chain for Bike A if you want quieter performance. Your process is fine, it's just the hardware combination.

 

[wafter]

Good work with the DIY sub-compacts; I wish manufactures would offer comparable sizes off the shelf as IMO what's on offer is still far too tall for the majority of riders; but I digress..

You raise an interesting question. I can’t offer any suggestions as to why you’re experiencing much lower mileage on the KMC chains, however for comparison I run waxed KMCs on a number of my bikes:

- X8s on (effectively) 1x2 with 50 and 13/16
- X9s on 3x9 with 48/36/26 and 11-34
- X11s on 2x11 with (well, woth) 50/34 and 11-34

As long as they don’t get excessively damp I expect around 300 miles from all of them before they want a re-wax (so in this regard are comparable to the results you’re getting from the YBN chains). Over time they get noticeably more sloppy / maybe a little rattly but not to the point where it’s problematic or concerning, and if not re-waxing based on distance they get done when they start to squeak.

What to do you term as “noisy”?

From my experiences alone I’d suggest that the reason for the difference in wax life is more likely due to the different drive trains rather than the chains themselves..

 

[PpPete]

That's a common observation. KMC chains, especially the EL model, have a reputation for being noisier with wax than other brands. Their internal tolerances and surface finish just seem to shed wax faster.

The oval chainrings definitely contribute. The constant speed change puts more stress on the wax film, breaking it down quicker than the consistent pull of round rings.

Stick with the YBN or try a Shimano chain for Bike A if you want quieter performance. Your process is fine, it's just the hardware combination.

Thanks
I've ordered a regular YBN chain (like on bike B) and also a YBN "SLA" (slightly more premium version with slotted outer plates like the KMC-EL) and will see how I get on with those while still keeping the oval chainrings. If still noisy after distances of less than 300km I will look out the original 50/34 round rings and refit those. They are a bit "tall" for me, but I guess I will have to HTFU (or, more likely, shell out for new chainset)

What to do you term as “noisy”?

As I do all my own fettling I suppose I am quite sensitive to anything other than a basically silent drivetrain.....
So, by "noisy" I mean I can hear a slightly metallic whispering sound of flat metal plates rubbing against each other. Less volume than even a slightly rubbing disc brake, but still (to me) highly irritatiing.

 

[88robb]

Thanks
I've ordered a regular YBN chain (like on bike B) and also a YBN "SLA" (slightly more premium version with slotted outer plates like the KMC-EL) and will see how I get on with those while still keeping the oval chainrings. If still noisy after distances of less than 300km I will look out the original 50/34 round rings and refit those. They are a bit "tall" for me, but I guess I will have to HTFU (or, more likely, shell out for new chainset)

Sounds like a solid plan. Hope the new chains fix the noise. Good luck

 

[silva]

https://tipartstitanium.com/blogs/p...e-chains-including-worlds-lightest-bike-chain
YBN is industry market where things have to last, Shimano is end-consumer market, where things have to be spent?

Years ago on a flea market there was a couple hundreds lenght YBN stamped links at a bargain price, bought them, tried, but bad luck, incompatible with singlespeed bicycle (pitch slightly higher), confirmed after looking up the specs.

 

[fossyant]

Just a heads up, Banana Industries have quite a range of YBN chains for good prices.

 

[PpPete]

Just a sequel....

The regular YBN S11S (bought from AliExpress vendor I've used previously) at least on inspection and first short ride all seems good.

Sadly the same cannot be said for the SLA version I bought from PlanetX.
When I was cleaning it prior to waxing I noticed that some of the outer plates had ends that were very "rough" - as if they had been produced in a long strip and sheared by a straight guillotine to produce something of appropriate length, but with ends that were not neatly rounded like other YBN and KMC chains. This got me suspicious so after final rinse in meths and prior to waxing I checked for length with my Park Tool gauge. Already at 0.5% !
Needless to say I have returned it for refund.
Planet X say it cannot possibly be a fake although they "will investigate" however in the meantime I suggest avoiding this:
https://planetx.co.uk/products/jobsworth-ybn-sla-11-speed-chain

 

[wafter]

Thanks
I've ordered a regular YBN chain (like on bike B) and also a YBN "SLA" (slightly more premium version with slotted outer plates like the KMC-EL) and will see how I get on with those while still keeping the oval chainrings. If still noisy after distances of less than 300km I will look out the original 50/34 round rings and refit those. They are a bit "tall" for me, but I guess I will have to HTFU (or, more likely, shell out for new chainset)


As I do all my own fettling I suppose I am quite sensitive to anything other than a basically silent drivetrain.....
So, by "noisy" I mean I can hear a slightly metallic whispering sound of flat metal plates rubbing against each other. Less volume than even a slightly rubbing disc brake, but still (to me) highly irritatiing.

Cool - good work; will be interested to hear how you get on when you've had a chance to run the new chain for a while.

I was trying to quantify the noise my chains make while out yesterday.. at first they start of silent post-wax, then as the wax wears / gets displaced they start to develop a sort of light mechanical clatter which (rightly or wrongly) I don't see as problematic. Finally when they start to squeak they get re-waxed..

 

[PpPete]

Needless to say I have returned it for refund.
Planet X say it cannot possibly be a fake although they "will investigate" however in the meantime I suggest avoiding this:
https://planetx.co.uk/products/jobsworth-ybn-sla-11-speed-chain

I've not heard anything back from them although the refund came through for the net price not including the shipping cost in either direction.

Cool - good work; will be interested to hear how you get on when you've had a chance to run the new chain for a while.

Won't be for a while - it's on my summer bike sans mudguards

.. at first they start of silent post-wax, then as the wax wears / gets displaced they start to develop a sort of light mechanical clatter which (rightly or wrongly) I don't see as problematic. Finally when they start to squeak they get re-waxed..

I find any chain noise quite off-putting, and as I've been rotating three chains on each bike (and then do a big batch of re-waxing), it's not a big deal to swop out at the first indication of any noise.