Changing the behaviour of cyclists

[psmiffy]

RLJ by both motorists and cyclists - The only way peoples behavior will be modified is by enforcement - but there are simply no/not enough urban traffic police - business case for more would be simple if the agency that provides them could be self financing - ie where I live 10yrs or so ago had 2 traffic wardens provided by the police - illegal parking was the norm - The local authority took over the duty - now there are over 50 parking wardens equipped with a fleet of mopeds and small cars - result is very little or no illegal parking

 

[GrasB]

As I've been saying for a few years now, we need the police to enforce the laws we have thus improve driver behaviour. This also goes for cyclist & the relevant laws, problem is this takes time & resources, something the Police seem to sadly lack these days.

 

[Arch]

The trouble is, as soon as the police, or anyone, start to properly enforce the law, they get accused of just raising revenue. There was a feature on the local Inside Out this week about unmarked motorbikes videoing speeding bikers in North Yorks, and they kept complaining that it was unfair, and trickery, and revenue raising. One said "if they just put a marked bike in the layby, we'd all ride legally" - so basically, he only cares about getting caught, not about actually behaving well.

Traffic lights could easily be enforced by cameras I imagine, but that would have the disadvantage of catching the drivers but not the cyclists, who can't easily be identified, and I want all transgressors to get caught and to change behaviour.

I ought to write to the York police and suggest they raise some cash, I can think of a junction they could stand at where they could probably get one or more drivers on every other phase, especially if they decided to get really niggly about the meaning of Amber. And plenty of cyclists too.

 

[brokenbetty]

Number of traffic lights at red this morning (visible as being red from where I was): 4

Number at which any motorised vehicle went through at red: 4

Number of such vehicles going through at red: 7 (maybe 8)

Number at which bikes went through at red: 1

Number of bikes going through at red: 2

This whole 'they hate us for going through red lights...' thing is a complete red herring. Thats just a tool by which they vocalise a more deep seated resentment. There is a name for a phenomenon where you can criticise another group specifically for doing something that is not definitive of that group any more than one you're part of; prejudice.

Number of traffic lights at red this evening as I walked to station (visible as being red from where I was): 4

Number at which any motorised vehicle went through at red: 1

Number of such vehicles going through at red: 3. Incidently they were the only three that went through the whole cycle as the junction was gridlocked.

Number at which bikes went through at red: 3

Number of bikes going through at red: 4 (of 5 bikes in all)

Red herring?

 

[GrasB]

Arch, the problem is we don't get full blooded policing of road behaviour we get focused crackdowns on certain target groups. This can easily be seen as unfair due to the fact you're concentrating on one area. I'm not talking about just policing RLJing I'm talking about a concerted effort to start policing general road behaviour; driving to close, close/dangerous overtakes of other road users, adherence to road markings, etc. across the board. I don't blame the bobby on the beat for not doing this as from what I can work out they're under resourced & tied up in red tape.

Cyclist v's motorists RLJing comes down to the junction you look at ime. There are junctions I've almost never seen a motorist but cyclists regularly jump & I also know of junctions with precisely the opposite happens.

 

[brokenbetty]

Back on the bike this morning: I counted 21 instances of RJL by cyclists vs 28 instances of waiting somewhere vaguely near the stop line. (20 of which were the same 4 cyclists stopping at 5 sets of lights)

Why do I care about cyclists when motorists are no angels either? Because I believe the world gets better when people put effort into recognising their own flaws and putting their own house in order. When that effort goes into pointing out others' flaws and telling them to fix them, the world gets worse.

Liz

 

[marinyork]

Well I can beat that. Last night number of RLJers on bicycles:0. Number of cars RLJing or doing an illegal right turn and nearly smashing into someone else:2. Thankfully some car drivers have sense and one looked and an angry van driver beeped a warning at the car jumping the lights.

As for attitude mattering, I think we're an out group.

 

[brokenbetty]

Well I can beat that. Last night number of RLJers on bicycles:0. Number of cars RLJing or doing an illegal right turn and nearly smashing into someone else:2. Thankfully some car drivers have sense and one looked and an angry van driver beeped a warning at the car jumping the lights.

As for attitude mattering, I think we're an out group.

Oh, is there is a score card showing how many RLJs by bikes == 1 by a car? I must have missed it.

It's not about "beating". It's about demonstrating that what you see isn't universal, and in some places the people who complain about cyclists have a valid point.

What does "we're an out group" mean?