Common sense

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Has that ever happened?
At least once that I can see, although it was a case of no lights, or reflectives, not no high vis alone.
Google: cyclist contributory negligence high visibility clothing. If it did happen to you, your lawyer might not be up to the job. The big one for damages is no helmet in the event of head injury, but again a good lawyer should be able to argue that they are only tested for efficacy with low speed and stationary impacts, not being shunted by a 30mph motor.
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
I have taken on board what everyone has said and the general concensus seems to be is that its not my dayglo jacket that has kept me safe. Its my luck.
So to test this I have been shopping and bought this ticket. But if I win the big money, I dont know how to tell you how lucky I am because I will be disowning you all 😁 But if I do come back, I will still be dressed as a lemon. 😁
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Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
At least once that I can see, although it was a case of no lights, or reflectives, not no high vis alone.
Google: cyclist contributory negligence high visibility clothing. If it did happen to you, your lawyer not up to the job. The big one for damages is no helmet in the event of head injury, but again a good lawyer should be able to argue that they are only tested for efficacy with low and slow impacts, not being shunted by a 30mph motor.

No lights and no reflectives is breaking the law (assuming post dusk), so I can see why payouts would be less. I would love to know about helmet/high vis examples.
 
No lights and no reflectives is breaking the law (assuming post dusk), so I can see why payouts would be less. I would love to know about helmet/high vis examples.
If the is lawyer worth their salt, they will counter an inevitable defence claim of contributory neg agianst the cyclist, by requesting specialist medical report from expert to state that the helmet would have made no difference. If it would have, expect reduced damages.
 
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boydj

Legendary Member
Location
Paisley
Did you intend to quote me or the post above it?

No - apologies.:wub:

EDIT :
No, I take that back. If you've been commuting on busy urban roads for many years and never been hit or come off as a result of a near miss, you've been very lucky. There are lots of careless and inattentive drivers out there and a few vindictive ones as well, who seem to dislike cyclists making progress in heavy traffic.
 
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icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
That's a different argument and there's a different thread for the specific item, so I will comment only on two aspects of the specific scientific method claim embodied in the above: first of all, you say "on the balance of probability it seems like a good idea" but I think you haven't actually estimated any probabilities there, let alone tried to balance them. For example, what's the probability of hitting the protective area rather than another body part? What's the probability that the impact speed will be less than 12mph? What's the increase in probability of an impact from the increased size and weight?

Fair enough. Common sense tells me that something padded between by head and what my head is going to hit, will stop my head hitting it as hard. This seems to be borne out by anecdotal evidence from doctors who treat people who have been mashed up after coming of bicycles. It also seems to be supported by the use of helmets for motorcyclists, mountain climbers, skiiers, racing drivers, almost any outward bound activity for children, sky divers etc. They can't all be wearing them for fun.

Simple retort: if you can't see well enough to be doing 40mph, you must slow down. To do otherwise is to at best careless driving. Highway Code Rule 126.

Simple response: I agree. However this is a binary argument again. Seeing well enough to be doing 40mph is not easily defined. It also does not correlate to your ability to see a non-reflective object easily, which is established by science. Physics tells is that dark objects reflect less light thus there is less information coming back to our retina when light is pointed toward a dark object than a highly reflective one. Hence the legal requirement to have working lights on a bicycle. There is always a risk however that your lights will stop working / fall off / become obscured and you won't be aware. It's definitely happened to me.

I really hope I've misunderstood that and you're not suggesting that going faster means you can close-pass people!
Nope! What I meant to say was that when travelling at a faster speed you need more time and information to plan how to safely pass a much slower object

Making the car environment like sitting in the living room is a personal choice
This is true. But most people having purchased a car, are going to choose to keep it snug, warm and comfortable. Very few are going to actively turn the radio off, dial down the heater and open the windows. Again, we are looking at "all cars" not the subset of "cars being driven well" or "cars where the driver is paying attention".

By all means, continue to waste your time. Just don't encourage others to waste theirs, and definitely don't blame anyone else for not wasting theirs, please!

How about we agree that people should read the evidence for and against, and make up their own minds as to whether or not they should use reflective equipment, and accept that a positive discourse about those pros and cons is more useful than discouraging discussion? I leave you with a 2018 study (randomised controlled trial in Denmark) that found that the incidence of cycling accidents was reduced when wearing a hi-viz reflective jacket:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925753517313528

I have not found a single scientific study that has found that it is more dangerous to wear high viz or reflective clothing. There does seem to be a bit of anecdotal reporting that it might not do as much as you might think, dependent on environment, but even those reports said that at worst you were going to be no worse off generally wearing high-visibility clothing and possibly better off. That being the case, I personally endorse the "well it doesn't hurt to be seen" argument.

I look forward to your rebuttal supporting the argument that "high viz and reflectivity" is a waste of time when cycling, and look forward very much to analysing the supporting randomised controlled trials and studies.
 
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MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
Why do skydivers wear helmets? :blush:
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Common sense tells me that cyclists head injuries would correlate to helmet use if they worked.

They don't.

Wear one by all means, but don't pretend they will make any appreciable difference to your well being.
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