Commuting in a short dress - Recommended!

[Mad at urage]

It's interesting - the relationship between courtesy and misogyny. You get a feeling for it over the years, but it's very difficult to explain, not least on tinternet when a variety of defensive responses about "harmless" behaviour inevitably volley in the moment anyone objects to anything on grounds of sexism. It's not true that most women are indoctrinated by radical feminists into being shirty about attentively courteous behaviour from men. Some love it, others find it patronising, most make distinctions based on context. But I can confidently assert that a lot of the threatening everyday situations in which women find themselves begin with unwanted attention that is characterised by exaggerated courtesy. The hostility was always there, just below the surface, and if you look closely you'll see that the supposed politeness is often nothing more than an adversarial strategy and a form of manipulation.

Some years ago I was walking to a meeting with a female colleague, a manager for whom I had huge respect (getting me to say that about management is itself an Achievement, but she was simply the best manager I've yet to meet). As I am taller with longer legs (walk faster), I strode out in front to hold the door open for her. No ulterior motive, I felt (and feel) no physical attraction for her, it's the sort of thing I've done and do for colleagues male and female over the years. Her response was interesting:
"Do NOT walk in front of me like that! I am NOT a second-class citizen to walk in your wake"
Now let it be said that we were on good, professional terms. At the time I reported to her, I shortly moved on (for career reasons) to a parallel reporting stream, we remained friends; but her reaction was very specific, to a particular 'old-world' courtesy with which habit I was raised. I did hold the door for her occasionally after that, never had the same reaction (probably because I was so puzzled by - and questioned, her reaction on that occasion).

 

[007fair]

Why do think that?

AFS, you really should have followed your own counsel rather than, yet again, pretending something was posted as a joke and then making it obvious that you are merely hiding behind that excuse.

And those who consider sexist jokes and comments to be appropriate, then cogitate a while on the difference between a conversation or a text message and a posting on an internet forum.

As I said earlier, I wonder whether the person who asked for the up-skirt video would have walked up to a stranger and requested something similar and, if not, whether they'd care to suggest why not.

Surely your interpretation of what LOCO said is worse than what was actually stated!

 

[mickle]

ttcycle I think you brought your own preconceived ideas and negative experience and applied them to this thread - thus making it much more sexist than it was ever intended to be. The thread was started by a female and some of the first contributions were female - all posts were in good humour! (I agree that maybe LOCO's video comment was too far but it was made worse by subsequent comments)

Huh?

 

[dellzeqq]

ttcycle I think you brought your own preconceived ideas and negative experience and applied them to this thread - thus making it much more sexist than it was ever intended to be. The thread was started by a female and some of the first contributions were female - all posts were in good humour! (I agree that maybe LOCO's video comment was too far but it was made worse by subsequent comments)

I think you need to take on board the thought that humour is not a get out of jail free card.

 

[ttcycle]

I think yourself and 007 are a bit mixed up as to the whether posters are male/female- on the first page, apart from the OP one woman who responds.

Yes, I have had a load of negative experience but it doesn't mean that some of the posting hasn't been lazily sexist.

 

[Norm]

Surely your interpretation of what LOCO said is worse than what was actually stated!

Poor attempt at a side track.

Whatever it was that was said, would he have said the same to a stranger in the street?

 

[ttcycle]

And just to mix it up a little 007, I think we all come to this board with preconceived ideas.

 

[Becs]

And those who consider sexist jokes and comments to be appropriate, then cogitate a while on the difference between a conversation or a text message and a posting on an internet forum.

As TT said it's all about context. Being a generally friendly place (although I guess this is "commuting" ) I automatically take the "sexist" comments on here to be harmless banter. Like I said there's a big difference between sexual harrassment from a collegue and having a bit of a laugh on a forum, or even lewd comments from pricks in the street.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Poor attempt at a side track.

Whatever it was that was said, would he have said the same to a stranger in the street?

Maybe it is an indication that a forum environment engenders a feeling of friendship and people do not see each other as strangers?

Cross post with Becs.

If a cyclist you had never met before said "I'm cold" how many of us would say MTFU? It is a regular comment used on many threads!

 

[007fair]

I think you need to take on board the thought that humour is not a get out of jail free card.

I threw myself into the deep end of this thread .. not entirely sure why!

The humour was started by a female and other females contributed .. seriously - were the first page of comments that bad or do they now look bad because of the way they have discussed afterwards? Was the OP offended ?

its only a get out of jail card if its hiding something which I don't think it was.

 

[ttcycle]

You also have to be aware that contexts will be different for each individual.

Becs, you acknowledge that the comments on board can be sexist whether jokey or not.
I think other posters may not recognise the comments as being sexist as has been alluded to by Dellzeqq and TC.

 

[Norm]

Maybe it is an indication that a forum environment engenders a feeling of friendship and people do not see each other as strangers?

With all due respect, are you holding yourself out as a psychologist or psychiatrist by suggesting that you know the meanings and motivations behind the posts of others?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I threw myself into the deep end of this thread .. not entirely sure why!

The humour was started by a female and other females contributed .. seriously - were the first page of comments that bad or do they now look bad because of the way they have discussed afterwards? Was the OP offended ?

its only a get out of jail card if its hiding something which I don't think it was.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

With all due respect, are you holding yourself out as a psychologist or psychiatrist by suggesting that you know the meanings and motivations behind the posts of others?

Not at all. I am asking a question not making a statement.

 

[007fair]

As TT said it's all about context. Being a generally friendly place (although I guess this is "commuting" ) I automatically take the "sexist" comments on here to be harmless banter. Like I said there's a big difference between sexual harrassment from a collegue and having a bit of a laugh on a forum, or even lewd comments from pricks in the street.

some sense! Thank you