Confused by the TDF

[The Couch]

Indeed, dont we all? Its just a changing of emphasis that I'm suggesting.

There are some emphasis differences already present (flat stages earn more points than bumpy stages, which is again more than mountain stages)
And there is the "fatigue" factor that plays a part as well, going for a intermediate sprint will drain a bit of energy possibly preventing you from winning the stage (which is still pretty prestigious in itself as well)

But indeed - as mentioned before - the organization gives quite a bit of points in intermediate sprints to try to make it more interesting along the way
Only calculating finish-points Kittel would have a leading 135 points (3 x 45p for 1st place) vs. Sagan 115 points (2 x 35p for 2nd place, 26p for 4th and 19p for 4th).

However, it depends a bit on how to interpret the green jersey.
Some see it as the most complete sprinter others as the best sprinter (which in the past has often been the same, but many times hasn't).


A similar discussion could be held for the polka-dot jersey which often ends in the hands of somebody who has focused on winning the jersey (e.g. Virenque and many "unknown" riders who won it once) instead of ending in the hands of the best climber.

 

[Donger]

Ok, I risk being ridiculed here, but after watching all 4 of the TDF stages so far I don't understand how Marcel Kittel can win 3 of the 4 stages and still only be in 147th place?! Chris Froome doesn't seem to have done much and yet he is 7th.

Would welcome an explanation if someone knows the answer!

What seems even stranger to me is that Kittel isn't even in the green points jersey - which used to be thought of widely as the sprinters' jersey. I know Sagan has been consistently in-shot at all the finishes, but surely 3 stage wins should have Kittel in green? Methinks they have the formula a bit wrong this year.

 

[winjim]

Do the intermediate sprints and hill climbs each have a separate starting point? Or is it just first to the sprint/climb finish line overall?

IYSWIM

 

[Rasmus]

Kittel has not contested any of the intermediate sprints, and is therefore quite rightly at a disadvantage in the points standings.

 

[Rasmus]

Do the intermediate sprints and hill climbs each have a separate starting point? Or is it just first to the sprint/climb finish line overall?

IYSWIM

First over the line, there is no "timed sector".

 

[winjim]

First over the line, there is no "timed sector".

So is it ever the case that you get a climb following a sprint, or vice versa, which would then disadvantage that particular specialist?

 

[Rasmus]

Never extremely close together, but the intermediate sprint will often be at a point in the stage where several big climbs have already been tackled, meaning the pure sprinters have no chance to compete.

For the KOM points, they will often all be hoovered up by a breakaway, so if you're interested in that jersey, you will need to get yourself away from the peloton regularly.

 

[Dogtrousers]

So is it ever the case that you get a climb following a sprint, or vice versa, which would then disadvantage that particular specialist?

Yes, you often get a sprint point that the other side of a climb. This is why the green jersey isn't so much the "sprinters jersey" as the "points jersey" which an all-rounder like Sagan is really suited to. Or, going back a few years Thor Hushovd won the green ahead of Cav for the same reason. Cav won a hatful of stages and Hushovd won one(?), but Hushovd could get out and hoover up those sprint points.

 

[Shadow]

Part of the problem is that the Green jersey is invariably described as the 'Sprinters Jersey'. It invariably winds up on the back of a sprinter but it is not necessarily for the 'best sprinter'. Think of it as the Most Consistent High Finishers jersey. This does not have as good 'ring' to it admittedly!

The following has been lifted directly from inrng.com, one of the best pro cycling blogs around:

Green: the points jersey, which tends to reward the sprinters. Points are awarded at the finish line and at one intermediate point in the stage and the rider with the most points wears the jersey. It is sponsored by PMU, the state-owned betting company.

• For the “flat” stages 45,35,30,26,22,20,18,16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2 points for the first 15 riders
• For the “hilly” stages 30,25,22,19,17,15,13,11,9, 7,6,5,4,3,2 points for the first 15 riders
• For the “high mountain” : 20,17,15,13,11,10,9,8,7, 6,5,4,3,2,1 points for the first 15 riders
• For the individual time trial stages : 20,17,15,13,11,10,9,8,7,6, 5,4,3,2,1 for the first 15 riders
• For each intermediate sprint, the first 15 riders to finish will receive 20,17,15,13,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 points respectively

This is also a great place to find answers to other potential queries http://inrng.com/tour

 

[Paul99]

So is it ever the case that you get a climb following a sprint, or vice versa, which would then disadvantage that particular specialist?

That scenario is what a Sagan is for.

Edit: Should really refresh the page before replying. Beaten to it by @Dogtrousers !

 

[smutchin]

Part of the problem is that the Green jersey is invariably described as the 'Sprinters Jersey'. It invariably winds up on the back of a sprinter but it is not necessarily for the 'best sprinter'. Think of it as the Most Consistent High Finishers jersey. This does not have as good 'ring' to it admittedly!

Exactly. It's about consistency. And that is why Sagan has it, rather than the intermediate sprints - he's finished in the top 4 on every stage so far, which is a phenomenal achievement when you consider it means that he is both in the mix with the pure sprinters on the flat stages and able to get over the lumpy bits with the climbers and GC contenders. He'll probably be towards the front again today, while Kittel will probably be down the field. It's just the Really Big Lumps and the time trial that will stymie Sagan the long run.

This is why Sagan reminds me of Sean Kelly - a strong all-rounder but not quite strong enough in any individual discipline to shine next to the specialists. He'll probably never be a GC contender, although Kelly did win the Vuelta later in his career so maybe it can't be ruled out.

To be fair, some of the GC contenders are pretty decent sprinters too and could also be in the mix for the green jersey if they fancied it, but they tend not to contest the sprints because they're so dangerous so it's not worth the risk. But that's what made Eddy Merckx so special - every race he rode to win.