consume by dates on food

[Fab Foodie]

We've got one, and I'm sure he'll be along at some point. You're quite right about the fats and oils, but visible beasties shouldn't be far behind! I reckon nearly everyone who keeps flour at the back of a cupboard will have things living in it.

Until he does, I can give my 2p's worth...

Correct that it's usually the oil level in the flour that goes rancid with time, and much flour will go crawly with time too. Flour will also dry-out and if kept warm and moist will absorb moisture and undergo breakdown changes (subtle chemistry). This we have some experience of issues shipping flour to tropical climes and it underperforming (we now have to ship it cool ).

Other factors are the grain type, how it's conditioned and how you set-up the mill. Millers are like dusty hobbits, they take years to produce and are masters of their art... Grain-type, geographical source, seasonal variation, grain blending, conditioning and importantly how the mill is set-up for a particular product all define it's final attributes not just Industrial vs Artisan milling.
Seasonal variation in flour especially European sourced can have major effects on its performance.... and price.

Flour's amazingly complex stuff, and I wish I knew more! Fortunately I know people who do.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Where else would I be? (ducks)

In reply to some other posters, watch out for sauces and the like that are past best before dates or have been open beyond the time recommended on the label. They can go mouldy and it is not always apparent from the outside. I doubt if it would do you much if any harm but I still wouldn't fancy eating it.

This is one of the side effects of reducing levels of salt and other preservatives in foods over the past few years. Tomato ketchup used to be stable at ambient temperatures but now if you look closely most brand labels will say to store in a cool place or to refrigerate after opening. The ones that don't will be saltier and more vinegary. A lot of other sauces have similar small print warnings. This is not some food equivalent of health and safety gone mad - just recipe changes that have consequences.

John

100% Agreed.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Thanks FF. Interesting stuff. Can I gently suggest that the food industry is being a bit cautious and playing safe? Obviously they fear legal action from some opportunistic individual whose delicate kid gets some loose stools.

What a lot of people fail to recognise is that eating faintly dodgy food builds up a resistance to Delhi Belly. Those who do not are forever doomed to avoid the local food stalls when they venture abroad, and drone on about how they got "sick" from a tomato salad, as they queue at the local McDonalds. Sad really. Eat bad stuff....but not a dodgy seafood confection in Bonifacio, Corsica. I will spare you the details.

I don't think the food industry is being over-safe at all, just trying to be sensibly dilligent. Do you remember the kids that died in Seattle from E.coli 0157:H7 from undercooked burgers? Or take a look at the annual data for food poisoning incidents. Granted a large number are from resteraunts and take-aways, but it does go to show that you can never be too careful. Some incidences of food poisoning in compromised individuals can have very serious consequences.


I have to say that a local-made tomato salad is a far more likely source of food-poisoning than a McD's whose standards of food safety and quality control are first-rate.

 

[longers]

It's like a busmans holiday for you on here FF.

Maybe you could make up for it by talking about bikes at work next week for a couple of hours.

 

[theclaud]

I have to say that a local-made tomato salad is a far more likely source of food-poisoning than a McD's whose standards of food safety and quality control are first-rate.

Yes McD's kills you in slower and more insidious ways...

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I'd rather have one of tc's eat once poisonous mushrooms than a Maccy D!

 

[ufkacbln]

Slightly OT....

I have an elderly relative who used to live of "close to date" goods. They knew that if they went to the Supermarket at a certain time each day they would be reducing stuff with short shelf lives to clear and cut their losses. Follow the staff round and pick up what they were reducing.

Now they are a 24 hour store and this doesn't happen in the same way, the food bill has gone up by about 20%

 

[661-Pete]

Funny stuff, cheese. It's effectively controlled putrescence (think what the Chinese consider cheese) in a form which is quite palatable. Blue cheese is blue by choice, but any other sort of cheese grows blue patches - beware! All these warnings about campylobacter or listeria or whatsit - can't get my head around.

Years ago I was at a business lunch at a hotel, one of my colleagues called for the cheese board. This was long before any of this sell-by-date nonsense. He then selected Camembert from the board. Waiter asked "Are you sure, Sir? It's very 'ripe'..." Well it didn't need the waiter to tell us that, we could smell it all round the table... . But my colleague took it, said it was 'delicious' (I think that was the word he used). Anyway I don't recall him absenting himself from work for the next few days.

And I have had a very 'mature' Chèvre served up in a French restaurant, myself. Some Chèvres are meant to be eaten young, some in a more ripened state. It's partly taste, partly cultural. Luckily, in France...

 

[srw]

Have you seen 3BM's thread?

The "bit cross-thread" comment wasn't about screwing on nuts, if that's what you mean. And I shall leave someone else to make a joke about that.

 

[summerdays]

I reckon nearly everyone who keeps flour at the back of a cupboard will have things living in it.

I purposely keep my flour in plastic containers and use it fairly frequently to try and avoid those wee beasties...

However I've got my BIL staying overnight tomorrow so it will be on my best behavior with regards to following the BBD etc as he works as a microbiologist within the food industry and has very strong views on those who ignore the advice!!!

 

[ColinJ]

I decided to experiment on myself tonight. I was having pitta breads with salad and only noticed at the last minute that the pittas' Best Before date was October 29th. They seemed okay but if I suddenly disappear off the forum, you'll know what happened to me! 

 

[theclaud]

The "bit cross-thread" comment wasn't about screwing on nuts, if that's what you mean. And I shall leave someone else to make a joke about that.

Fnaar seems to be on post-birthday hangover leave...

 

[slowmotion]

Not too long ago, there was an outbreak of food poisoning that sadly killed some people in the UK. In the aftermath, there was debate about food safety on TV, and the French equivalent of the British minister was invited to contribute. I will always remember his words...

"You British only care about " safety"...we French only care about "taste" ". That is the difference.

 

[Rezillo]

France has around 400 to 450 deaths per year from food poisoning compared to around 50 to 60 in the UK. It varies a bit - some French outbreaks have had fairly high death rates and these don't occur every year.

Their listerosis rate, which was going down but seems to be on the rise again, is about twice ours and that is an illness with some very nasty consequences. Most deaths each year, though, are from salmonella.

John

 

[slowmotion]

France has around 400 to 450 deaths per year from food poisoning compared to around 50 to 60 in the UK. It varies a bit - some French outbreaks have had fairly high death rates and these don't occur every year.

Their listerosis rate, which was going down but seems to be on the rise again, is about twice ours and that is an illness with some very nasty consequences. Most deaths each year, though, are from salmonella.

John

That is exactly the point that the Frenchman was making. They are prepared to take a risk so that they can have interesting food, and they make a personal choice in order to experience it. The French have a different attitude towards risk, and that extends to a lot of activities. If a UK food safety geezer went to a summer market selling thick local cream he would go ballistic.