CPR Update

[ufkacbln]

Yes... but are you associated with the Resuscitation Council?

???

Nope

Just up to date with Continuing Professional Development and current literature

 

[ufkacbln]

[QUOTE 4410999, member: 45"]I was about to post the same.[/QUOTE]

It is a point often missed

A few years ago the Trust published a leaflet about CPR

it is also about expectations

It explained that in Media such as Holby City and Casualty the survival was at the hands of the script writers, and often written for drama rather than accuracy

Hence, whilst we would do all we could for a patient, the survival rates in the media were unrealistic when compared to reality.

 

[Incontinentia Buttocks]

Well done mate, bloody well done.

 

[Salad Dodger]

And you were right to follow them.

I've said it elsewhere on CC, but as part of my Red Cross first aid training in Melbourne, we were told the story of man who had be bitten by a blue-ringed octopus, which paralyses every muscle in your body, including heart and lungs. You need to be kept alive until the poison clears, initially with CPR then on a machine in hospital. While his friends were administering CPR, he heard one of them say to the other "he's dead. let's stop" They didn't, which is why he lived to tell the tale.

The lesson stuck with me. Keep doing CPR until the ambulance arrives, even if you "know" they are dead.

My Red Cross instructor said that unless the casualty has their head seperated from the rest of them, continue CPR until a qualified medical professional either takes over, or calls it off........

 

[guitarpete247]

My mum died of a massive heart attack 11 years ago. Nobody in group of friends knew anything of CPR.
GF is first aider at work and agrees with everything said.

 

[jefmcg]

Something else I was told on my course, which was in Australia, was that if anyone was sued for injuries following an attempt at first aid, the Red Cross would send along a QC to represent their interests. Because if someone is financially ruined after attempting to help, no one is ever going to step forward again. I imagine the Red Cross would do something similar here.

At the time we were told no one had successfully sued a first aider, but there was an ongoing case where a bone had broken through the skin and the first aider had snapped it off <shudder>. I'm in two minds how I think that case should resolve. But I guess for the rest of us (if not poor the poor victim of that "first aid"), it's best if the suit was unsuccessful.

 

[Profpointy]

Something else I was told on my course, which was in Australia, was that if anyone was sued for injuries following an attempt at first aid, the Red Cross would send along a QC to represent their interests. Because if someone is financially ruined after attempting to help, no one is ever going to step forward again. I imagine the Red Cross would do something similar here.

At the time we were told no one had successfully sued a first aider, but there was an ongoing case where a bone had broken through the skin and the first aider had snapped it off <shudder>. I'm in two minds how I think that case should resolve. But I guess for the rest of us (if not poor the poor victim of that "first aid"), it's best if the suit was unsuccessful.

In UK law, whilst there isn't a "good samaritan" defense as such, one of the grounds for a legal decision is "policy" meaning something like "the public good" so unless your first aid attempt was blatantly ludicrous, the chances of a victim suing are pretty remote. That said said, if you had some kind of insurance the insurers could settle to make the case go away, but I don't think this has ever happened

I'm not a lawyer, but have a very thick book on Tort which I read some years back. Clerk and Lindsell (spelling?) if anyone's interested

 

[Nibor]

Rescue Breaths are still important according to my very recent first aid course however compressions on their own are better than nothing and it simplifies the process so it can be quickly taught in a catchy advert producing thousands of people who wouldn't previously have been able to assist in an emergency who can now improve a victims chance of surviving.now

 

[Profpointy]

Rescue Breaths are still important according to my very recent first aid course however compressions on their own are better than nothing and it simplifies the process so it can be quickly taught in a catchy advert producing thousands of people who wouldn't previously have been able to assist in an emergency who can now improve a victims chance of surviving.now

Was that diving related training, and thus for drowned fit people, as opposed to heart attack people which (I'm guessing) the general public advice is targetted for?

 

[Nibor]

No general first aid at work

 

[Katherine]

Well done @numbnuts. That's great news. I hope your friend makes a good recovery.



We're taught to do the first set of chest compressions before the first set of rescue breaths because the casualty will still have air in their lungs from their last breath before they collapsed. Also, if they still have a pulse but not breathing, start chest compressions anyway because their heart will stop soon without any breathing.

 

[Profpointy]

Prompted by this thread I did some searching and it does appear that the rescue breaths thing is still desirable if possible

here's summary diagram and a link from the UK resus lot.

https://www.resus.org.uk/resuscitat...upport-and-automated-external-defibrillation/

This agrees with what I was taught on a (diving related) course - but this was presumably expecting drowned people at sea, rather than elderly people with heart attacks in the street. Was also taught this in other courses.

I don't know if anyone in the trade can confirm this is the current story

My understanding was the chest compressions only thing was just to make it really simple in a TV advert or for (maybe untrained) people especially if squeamish, faced with a victim who might have vomited or be drooling or whatever. Better than doing nothing being the point.

And well done to the OP. I've never had to do it in anger, but have intervened in lesser first aid situations and found even that quite stressful, despite having done courses - but at least the course gave me enough nerve and hopefully knowledge to try and help.


Here's what the resus people say about compression only CPR

QUOTE

Compression-only CPR
CPR providers trained and able to perform rescue breaths should perform chest compressions and rescue breaths as this may provide additional benefit for children and those who sustain an asphyxial cardiac arrest or where the EMS response interval is prolonged.54-57 Only if rescuers are unable to give rescue breaths should they do compression-only CPR.
The Resuscitation Council (UK) has carefully considered the balance between potential benefit and harm from compression-only CPR compared to standard CPR that includes ventilation. Our confidence in the equivalence between chest-compression-only and standard CPR is not sufficient to change current practice. The Resuscitation Council (UK), therefore, endorses the ILCOR and ERC recommendations that CPR providers should perform chest compressions for all patients in cardiac arrest. CPR providers trained and able to perform rescue breaths should perform chest compressions and rescue breaths as this may provide additional benefit for children and those who sustain an asphyxial cardiac arrest or where the EMS response interval is prolonged.
When an untrained bystander dials 999, the ambulance dispatcher should instruct him to give chest-compression-only CPR while awaiting the arrival of trained help. Further guidance on dispatcher-assisted CPR is given in the Prehospital resuscitation guidelines.​

END QUOTE

This is 2015 advice

 

[Drago]

Ignore the lefties on here. They'd let someone turn blue and die rather than pass up an opportunity to argue about the correct officially endorsed method to save the subjects life. The OP did his level best, and saved a life because of it - no knew needs to justify such a brave and gallant act to anyone.

 

[Profpointy]

Ignore the lefties on here. They'd let someone turn blue and die rather than pass up an opportunity to argue about the correct officially endorsed method to save the subjects life. The OP did his level best, and saved a life because of it - no knew needs to justify such a brave and gallant act to anyone.

What the f are you on about ?

 

[Dayvo]

I did a course at work 3-4 years ago (a lot of old folks play golf) and learnt the CPR and defibrillation method.

Interestingly, and amusingly, the ideal speed to administer CPR is the same as The Bee Gees' Staying Alive.

It took a few weeks before that association ended and I could stop whistling the melody when the seniors out playing.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY