CTC capitulation?

[Nigel-YZ1]

Lets face it, in this country a roundabout is an overtaking mechanism with no set lanes, to be taken at the highest speed possible while driving one handed on the mobile with motorbikes weaving in and out being 'free', and cyclists are rodents to be pushed aside and yelled at or have McDonalds crap thrown at them (preferably after the most dangerous parts have been eaten).
Quite a dark view, but it's been one of those weeks. Or it's the result of someone trying to push a large speeding Mitsubishi (50 at least in a 30) up my anal passage this morning

 

[Paspie]

Turbo roundabouts should be fine as long as both drivers and cyclists are equipped to deal with them.

Most of the problems you're describing (I read first two pages) are more to do with driver behaviour, and that needs improving more than anything else.

 

[summerdays]

Turbo roundabouts should be fine as long as both drivers and cyclists are equipped to deal with them.

Most of the problems you're describing (I read first two pages) are more to do with driver behaviour, and that needs improving more than anything else.

Does that include some kind of force field to repel cars or rocket launchers on the bike .... (I think the power might just go to my head!)

 

[Paspie]

You would probably have no trouble getting round it if there were no cars on it.

From there it is a case of how many motor vehicles will actually be using it each day before using it any other way becomes undesirable.

This isn't explicitly car 'infrastructure', the same design will apply to you, and both will have to learn to get around it properly and with care/attention. It's no different with dual carriageways, gyratories, and grade separated junctions.

 

[stowie]

You would probably have no trouble getting round it if there were no cars on it.

From there it is a case of how many motor vehicles will actually be using it each day before using it any other way becomes undesirable.

This isn't explicitly car 'infrastructure', the same design will apply to you, and both will have to learn to get around it properly and with care/attention. It's no different with dual carriageways, gyratories, and grade separated junctions.

If there were no cars on it then a roundabout almost certainly wouldn't be needed. The roundabout is a construct designed to merge vehicles at a junction and cyclists and pedestrians simply have to fit into the scheme.

From your previous post, if drivers were universally calm, stuck to the highway code and were rational then this would be perfect. How do we get to this situation? I am in favour of strategically placed snipers to weed out the bad ones, but apparently this isn't considered good form. Short of permanent police presence, or punitive punishments for those caught, the only way to get drivers to behave is by road design. I do think that "driver education" has its place, but will sometimes be like appealing to the school bully not to pick on you. They might take pity and listen but probably won't.

 

[Paspie]

I was and still am in a free study period, so you can suck that. And my cab was twenty minutes early.

As for the constructive stuff: how can I prove I'm a rational road user myself? I don't want to have anything to do with bad drivers. My point is you shouldn't be blaming road design for driver behaviour.

 

[Flying Dodo]

My point is you shouldn't be blaming road design for driver behaviour.

Bad road design can and does encourage bad driver behaviour. There'll always be idiots on all forms of transportation, but it would be nice if road layout could try and eliminate some of the issues caused by bad driver behaviour.

 

[jonesy]

Bad road design can and does encourage bad driver behaviour. There'll always be idiots on all forms of transportation, but it would be nice if road layout could try and eliminate some of the issues caused by bad driver behaviour.

Quite. And drivers do respond to the message given out by the infrastructure, in terms of how fast they drive, who has priority. Which is why roundabout geometry is so important: designs that constrain how fast you can go and position you at 90% to crossing pedestrians and cyclists when entering and exiting will encourage safer behaviour generally, and help mitigate the worst effects of the idiots.

 

[marknotgeorge]

every roundabout I've ever seen in any country, including Holland has been crap. But for reasons you're going to have to work out for yourself.

Frank Blackmore once stole your lollipop?

 

[swansonj]

I think the bus for the special school is late.... probably stuck in traffic.

Reg - it's a free world, and I don't have to read your posts if they offend me - but as a parent who puts a child on the bus for the special school most days, I can't help musing on the strangeness of someone who has apparently championed the cause of various disparaged minority groups contributing to the disparaging of another minority group themself in this way?

(In case there are any pedants around, it's actually a taxi not a bus in our case)

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Bad road design can and does encourage bad driver behaviour. There'll always be idiots on all forms of transportation, but it would be nice if road layout could try and eliminate some of the issues caused by bad driver behaviour.

Junction design which allows drivers to take the racing line encourages drivers to take the racing line. QED.

 

[swansonj]

I must apologise if you were offended by it / I caused offence. Comment deleted.

Thanks. I wasn't particularly offended, and whilst there's a discussion to be had about the bounds of appropriate insults, in view of your generous apology, now is not the place to have it.

 

[Paspie]

Quite. And drivers do respond to the message given out by the infrastructure, in terms of how fast they drive, who has priority. Which is why roundabout geometry is so important: designs that constrain how fast you can go and position you at 90% to crossing pedestrians and cyclists when entering and exiting will encourage safer behaviour generally, and help mitigate the worst effects of the idiots.

Brainless worship of the Great God of Slowness.

New roundabout designs do, require a slower speed but their entry points are much sharper and feel more unnatural. This encourages the driver to take a racing line and it is much more likely they will be sideswiped, compared to older designs.

Also, if the cyclist and driver are taking the same line around a roundabout, there should be no conflicts (are you referring to cyclo-peds?).

No matter how we design our roads there will always be idiots on both sides.

 

[Paspie]

Slowness, excuse me.

 

[Paspie]

I know you're still at school... but you do talk a load of bollocks. Perhaps you should leave the serious conversations to the grown ups...

If only you could speak to me like a grown-up. You do realise that the more you insult, the less I'm going to listen to you.