Cute or vermin ?

[nickyboy]

In case anyone is wondering, these are the other animals that you're not allowed to release or relocate in the wild. All are on the list as they've caused problems in the past or are causing problems now.

Common name (Scientific name)
Bass, Large-mouthed Black (Micropterus salmoides)
Bass, Rock (Ambloplites rupestris)
Bitterling (Rhodeus sericeus)
Budgerigar (Melopsittacus undulatus)
Capercaillie (Tetrao urogallus)
Coypu (Myocastor coypus)
[F1Crayfish, Noble] [F1Astacus astacus]
[F1Crayfish, Signal] [F1Pacifastacus leniusculus]
[F1Crayfish, Turkish] [F1Astacus leptodactylus]
[F2Deer, Muntjac] [F2Muntiacus reevesi]
[F1Deer, Sika] [F1Cervus nippon]
[F3 Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a Sika Deer] [F3 Any hybrid of Cervus nippon]
[F3 With respect to the Outer Hebrides and the isalnds of Aaran, Islay, Jura and Rum - (a)Deer, Cervus(allspecies)] [F3 Cervus]
[F3 (b)Deer, any hybrid one of whose parents or other lineal ancestor was a species of Cervus Deer] [F3 Any hybrid of the genus Cervus]
Dormouse, Fat (Glis glis)
Duck, Carolina Wood (Aix sponsa)
Duck, Mandarin (Aix galericulata)
Duck, Ruddy (Oxyura jamaicensis)
Eagle, White-tailed (Haliaetus albicilla)
[F1Flatworm, New Zealand] [F1Artiposthia triangulata]
Frog, Edible (Rana esculenta)
Frog, European Tree (otherwise known as Common tree frog) (Hyla arborea)
Frog, Marsh (Rana ridibunda)
Gerbil, Mongolian (Meriones unguiculatus)
Goose, Canada (Branta canadensis)
Goose, Egyptian (Alopochen aegyptiacus)
Heron, Night (Nycticorax nycticorax)
Lizard, Common Wall (Podarcis muralis)
Marmot, Prairie (otherwise known as Prairie dog) Cynomys
Mink, American (Mustela vison)
Newt, Alpine (Triturus alpestris)
[F1Newt, Italian Crested] [F1Triturus carnifex]
[F4Owl, Barn] [F4Tyto alba]
Parakeet, Ring-necked (Psittacula krameri)
Partridge, Chukar (Alectoris chukar)
Partridge, Rock (Alectoris graeca)
Pheasant, Golden (Chrysolophus pictus)
Pheasant, Lady Amherst’s (Chrysolophus amherstiae)
Pheasant, Reeves’ (Syrmaticus reevesii)
Pheasant, Silver (Lophura nycthemera)
Porcupine, Crested (Hystrix cristata)
Porcupine, Himalayan (Hystrix hodgsonii)
Pumpkinseed (otherwise known as Sun-fish or Pond-perch) (Lepomis gibbosus)
Quail, Bobwhite (Colinus virginianus)
Rat, Black (Rattus rattus)
[F1Snake, Aesculapian] [F1Elaphe longissima]
Squirrel, Grey (Sciurus carolinensis)
Terrapin, European Pond (Emys orbicularis)
Toad, African Clawed (Xenopus laevis)
Toad, Midwife (Alytes obstetricans)
Toad, Yellow-bellied (Bombina variegata)
Wallaby, Red-necked (Macropus rufogriseus)
Wels (otherwise known as European catfish) (Silurus glanis)
Zander (Stizostedion lucioperca)

Can you explain which of the Acts you quoted earlier this list applies to please? My interest is that these are non-indigenous species so I can understand the rationale in wanting to limit their expansion in UK. But I am a bit confused by the "vermin" definition. Some posters on here have described foxes as "vermin" but they aren't on this list so presumably they either aren't vermin (as defined in law) or the list of vermin is wider than the above?

I guess that "vermin" extends to certain indigenous species that are perceived as having an adverse impact on commercial activities? It's unfortunate. These species were here long before the commercial activities so one can hardly blame the fox for killing the chickens, for example, when one plonks a load of chickens in an area with foxes

 

[Cubist]

[QUOTE 4225724, member: 9609"]could you point me to the personal insult, I have never intended to make one.[/QUOTE]
By referring time and again to all gun owners as simply wanting to kill things. Despite my posts to the contrary you have effectively called me a liar by reasserting that you don't believe I have any interest in or love for wildlife or conservation. Despite pointing out that my personal stance as a shooter is very different to that of a commercial Scottish grouse shoot you have dismissed my efforts by calling into question my motives.

Like I said, very binary.

 

[Fnaar]

I reckon "vermin" means pretty much the same as "weeds"... i.e. they aren't wanted in the environment you find them in, may upset or damage the existing ecological balance, yet they are only animals (plants) themselves, and may actually be rather lovely

 

[hopless500]

Surprising, but neither are native species, and that is what the original legislation seeks to address. A barn owl found injured for example can be mended/healed but in order to return it to the wild requires a licence otherwise the kindly act calls foul of legislation.

As environments change, certain species can proliferate at the expense of others. A good example is that of the Muntjac and Sika deer which were introduced without forethought to their adaptability. Although outwardly broadly similar to native species, their habits and adaptability don't fit in the same eco-slots as say Roe or Fallow, and the impact they have on the environment becomes unsustainable.

In a reverse of this phenomenon changing agricultural practice creates or has created an imbalance in certain situations. My example of wood pigeon proliferation above caused by the increase in oil seed rape production is as good an example as any. I used to see massive flocks of pigeon only in the summer harvest time, feeding on stubble, or newly drilled peas, but in recent times I have seen just as many, and occasionally more feeding voraciously on rape greens in January and February. They become harder to control, and don't thin out naturally during winter, so have to be controlled all year round. And it's a losing battle.

AFAIK, capercaillie certainly was native but was exterminated in Scotland and then reintroduced later.

 

[Fnaar]

AFAIK, capercaillie certainly was native but was exterminated in Scotland and then reintroduced later.

Not a bad band, either

 

[hopless500]

Not a bad band, either

Yep. We've got a few albums. Mr Hop likes 'em more than I do. I prefer Savourna Stevenson meself

 

[welsh dragon]

Vermin. From personal experience, having water running down the walls into the living room as a result of a squirel damaging wiring on the water tank causing thousands of pounds worth of damage while I was out. Not to mention tearing bird feeders apart at every opportunity they get. I don't take pleasure In shooting anything, but sometimes enough is enough.

 

[nickyboy]

The legislation is quoted in post #33

I think you're confusing two things. The list I quoted is a list of creatures where there are controls on their release or relocation in the wild. This doesn't mean they're necessarily vermin - it means that these are animals you cannot release into the wild. Section 14 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act has been amended to provide slightly different rules for Scotland - but they are still very similar to those in England and Wales.

There used to be fairly old legislation called the Vermin Act but that has been repealed. There is no legal definition of 'vermin' as such or a central list, but instead a number of pest species are gathered into the 'vermin' fold under a whole array of legislation, including things like the Destructive Imported Animals Act 1932 and Orders made thereunder, the Public Health Act 1936, the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act 1949, the Pests Act 1954 (particularly in relation to rabbits through the Rabbit Clearance Order SI No 1972/148), the Forestry Act 1967, the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974, and the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981.

You then have to throw into the mix things like the General Licenses under the Wildlife & Countryside Act, which can restrict what actions can be taken or when something is considered a pest and steps taken to control it. The General Licenses apply mainly to birds but do cover some mammals.

It isn't the easiest thing to navigate your way round.

Thank you. The species that fall under the definition of "vermin" does appear to be somewhat arbitrary in nature. I was aware, for example, that Bullfinches fell within the scope in certain fruit-growing areas of the country. Don't know if that's still the case or not though.

I do reiterate my comment that these indigenous species that are described as "pests" or "vermin" are getting a poor deal. Not their fault we put a load of food within easy reach for them and then get upset when they try to eat it

 

[ceecycles]

sorry but they are vermin.red squirrels are lovely, gentle animals, but grey squirrels are nasty vermin. they carry horrible diseases and things like tics which are extremely dangerous for pets.

 

[Cubist]

Thank you. The species that fall under the definition of "vermin" does appear to be somewhat arbitrary in nature. I was aware, for example, that Bullfinches fell within the scope in certain fruit-growing areas of the country. Don't know if that's still the case or not though.

I do reiterate my comment that these indigenous species that are described as "pests" or "vermin" are getting a poor deal. Not their fault we put a load of food within easy reach for them and then get upset when they try to eat it

Don't forget though that the most common "pest species" rabbit and Woodpigeon also happen to be very tasty. There was a time when a warrener was in full time work, taking huge numbers of rabbits from land. Pre Mixymatosis, rabbits were a serious, serious problem for farmers, knacking drainage, eating valuable pasture and crops, and spoiling others. As a source of valuable meat for the masses, they were plentiful and readily caught. Nowadays folk don't eat rabbit like they used to. Mixy and modern control methods such as gassing mean there's no work for a warrener, and the bunnies only occasionally "boom" before mixy takes a hold again on a stressed population. I know of land where rabbits still thrive, but their numbers are nothing like what they used to be. They are/were a primary food source for predators such as buzzards and fox, and the change in balance brings Charlie back in conflict with the sheep and chicken farmers.

Interestingly, as @User will tell you, bunnies bounce backwards and forwards in legislation, defined in places as pests, vermin, but in others "ground game" so the legislation pertaining to them and their control/pursuit changes in a way which could confuse. The Wildlife and Countryside Act conflicts in places with some pretty archaic legislation in the Ground game Act for example.

Woodpigeon are not classed specifically as pests, and are only legitimate quarry under a "General Licence" condition, where they can be shot as long as there is a proven need for crop protection.

 

[Dave7]

The one I shot yesterday was quite cute

 

[Gravity Aided]

Brunswick stew. Also quite cute, and a never-ending source of entertainment at work. My aunt had one trained to come to her door and knock at noontime. She would feed it a cracker and peanut butter.

 

[Supersuperleeds]

Vermin.
Tree rats.

That's what my father in law calls them

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Funny how us humans call them vermin, tree-rats, destroy our homes. All the while we have no issues with large scale deforestation.

 

[Dayvo]

I like them, and have done since I was a young lad.

I daresay there are a fair few members here who remember these below-mentioned characters from the mists of long ago.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUZ08m1a77A