Cycle to Work - Can you use more than 1?

[doyler78]

After years of trying to get the cycle to work scheme introduced it now looks like it could finally happen. I had a meeting with the Director responsible for scoping this scheme and introducing should it be adopted and he seemed keen to introduce and implement as soon as possible. Of course it still needs full Trust approval so it is not necessarily in the bag but does look as good as.

Anybody know if cyclescheme or halfords have a restrictive clauses in their contracts with employers which do not permit the employer to use any other facilitator whilst they are using their schemes.

I ask because it would seem likely that any scheme which is adopted by my organisation will like look to ensure as broad a range of bikes are available and that employees can actually see and sit on bikes before they buy and that would preclude Wiggle from being any sole facilitator of the scheme therefore the odds are likely to fall in favour of the above two schemes, ones of which I am familiar however there may be more.

If they did get the business is there any reason why Wiggle's Cycle to Work scheme could not be run alongside either of them? (Want a Focus Cayo

 

[Tynan]

don't halfords order anything you want?

lucky scrote, our place refuses to even look at it, lazy waster staff to blame

 

[doyler78]

don't halfords order anything you want?

lucky scrote, our place refuses to even look at it, lazy waster staff to blame

It has taken nearly 4 years now to get to where I am now so I am pretty delighted that this is finally likely to be implemented, though carbon footprints had a hand in persuading them and that was from other external sources but at least when I raised it got a more receptive response this time.

I have heard that they Halfords will. Not sure if they can get the Focus Cayo's as Wiggle are the sole UK sellers unless of course they buy them direct from Wiggle then I have my doubts that they will pass it along to me (my Trust - its not mine) at exactly the same cost ie will it still be £999, if not it will take me over the £1000 limit and top ups (ie excess paid over the £1000 to cover the cost of more expensive bikes) will not be permitted as I believe that causes ownership issues which makes for a more complicated scheme and as we are spending public money costly legislative remedies are to be avoided.

To be honest given how good value the Cayo is it will not be the end of the world if I have to get it myself though would prefer to spend to £999 less 33% plus 5% disposal fee ie final cost of around £720 ie £280 - that's a lot of gear.

Bad luck about your company. Why are they refusing? With all these facilitators about all they have to do is divide the cost of the bike by 12 or 18 and take that off your gross pay and then calculate your tax and national insurance payments and if they are kind give you the VAT they reclaimed back. Not very difficult and what's more they actually pay less employers national insurance and if they contribute to your occupational pension they save here too. Really pisses me off that so many organisations are so pig headed about this.

Keep at them though and if you can find others in your organisation that you can recruit to the cause all the better.

 

[fossyant]

We are not off the blocks yet... HE institution and a green travel policy - lot's of re-assurance to do it - that's my target for this coming year - make the folks in charge comfortable with it....

The main failing point seems to be the 'who owns the bike' - i.e. problems with claims - fair enough then - anyone wanting cycle to work scheme needs to be BCF or CTC affiliated.... ?

 

[Tynan]

small company being run on tight budgets and most of the staff are sales who are largely high turnover and self centred and short termist

maybe three cyclists in the whole place, 2 probably

they circulated the tax free childcare scheme a while ago and I punched the air and said yes, HR told me I was the only one that expressed an interest

ah well, luckily I can afford a new bike with some scrimping and saving

 

[fossyant]

It's not for me... I went on an induction and loads of folk were really interested, but the Sport Dept couldn't get anywhere with the Estates (travel) folk....

I asked all the questions, but there was an uneasy back off - I'm sure it's the insurance issue..but it's been done loads of times at other HE institutions......

Keep at it...........

 

[doyler78]

small company being run on tight budgets and most of the staff are sales who are largely high turnover and self centred and short termist

maybe three cyclists in the whole place, 2 probably

they circulated the tax free childcare scheme a while ago and I punched the air and said yes, HR told me I was the only one that expressed an interest

ah well, luckily I can afford a new bike with some scrimping and saving

That's too bad however they really shooting themselves in the foot as they would actually save money by adopting the scheme as they already have the admin side sorted for salary sacrafice. Ah well we can't win them all I suppose. My organisation has 22,000 employees so they are rather more remote which isn't a good thing either.

 

[doyler78]

It's not for me... I went on an induction and loads of folk were really interested, but the Sport Dept couldn't get anywhere with the Estates (travel) folk....

I asked all the questions, but there was an uneasy back off - I'm sure it's the insurance issue..but it's been done loads of times at other HE institutions......

Keep at it...........

The insurance issue shouldn't arise as most, if not all, facilitators so far as I can determine seem to write into the contract with the employee that they will insure themselves and properly maintain the bike and if they haven't it can easily be amended to do so.

Guess they are just looking an excuse. I'm sure they have the childcare vouchers in place 2 as you are likely to be in a large organisation therefore they actually have the admin side in place.

Mine really is more or less going to be introduced as the Director responsible was really keen and the Chief Exec apparently is on board (his carbon footprint is concerning him ) so really unless they pull something up that makes them quake I don't see any probs ahead. They may dither over how quickly but it will happen I think. If anything the Director was hoping to have in place in time for the summer however it really depends on the tendering process and how complicated it ends up being. I'm hoping to get a copy of another Trust's tender docs which would significantly reduce the time needed in putting our tender together.

Guess all you can do is live in hope.

 

[doyler78]

We are not off the blocks yet... HE institution and a green travel policy - lot's of re-assurance to do it - that's my target for this coming year - make the folks in charge comfortable with it....

The main failing point seems to be the 'who owns the bike' - i.e. problems with claims - fair enough then - anyone wanting cycle to work scheme needs to be BCF or CTC affiliated.... ?

Sorry missed your this (first post).

There should be no ambiguity over who owns the bike. It is the companies so long as you don't allow the employees to top up the purchase with money of their own so as to get a more expensive bike. Preclude this as most sane organisations would do and you are completely covered. The important point is that the employee does not own now and further more has absolutely no rights whatsoever to it even after the end of the loan period.

At the end and only then the employer can do with the asset whatever they wish however if they are to dispose of it then to comply with the rules of the scheme they should really get 3 quotes as to the current value of the bike
and sell at the average cost however most don't bother with this estimating disposal to be between 2.5-5%. They can sell this to any person or organisation they wish to however the expectation would be that the employee who sacraficed their salary to make payments for it would be given the option to buy it however this as I said before is not a right nor can the employee be forced to buy it at the end. Any company that didn't sell to the employee wouldn't get any takers after they shafted the first set of employees so not in their interests let alone the morale issues of not selling.

Sorry to go on a bit about this however I have had to counter ever argument ever put forward about the scheme so know a little about it

 

[fossyant]

They've been getting cold feet as the bike is owned by the employer, so if the employee crashes etc. and causes injury or damage, then the 'third' party would have more chance pursuing the organisation. As has been suggested, building in a need to insure and maintain the bike would get round this.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

They've been getting cold feet as the bike is owned by the employer, so if the employee crashes etc. and causes injury or damage, then the 'third' party would have more chance pursuing the organisation.

Only if the bike is being used in work in the course of the employer's business. Commuting in and out to work is not normally in the course of the employer's business as it is the employee's duty to get himself to work.

The scheme is essentially very simple and it amazes me that employers make such a meal of it.

 

[Arch]

They've been getting cold feet as the bike is owned by the employer, so if the employee crashes etc. and causes injury or damage, then the 'third' party would have more chance pursuing the organisation. As has been suggested, building in a need to insure and maintain the bike would get round this.

<bangs head on desk repeatedly>

It's shoot like this makes me want to stop the world and get off. What happened to people taking care of themselves? Why does everything have to run with a view to sue-ing and insurance? I bet there are whole departments in some businesses devoted to looking for possible trouble.

Grrrrr. I'll go back into my little hole and grumble for a bit....

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

<bangs head on desk repeatedly>

It's shoot like this makes me want to stop the world and get off. What happened to people taking care of themselves? Why does everything have to run with a view to sue-ing and insurance? ....

It's because a lot of business and professional life works on the basis that if anything goes wrong, there will be blame and it must be allocated to an individual other than oneself.

 

[doyler78]

For anyone else that has wondered the same then I can answer my own question as I now have a copy of cyclescheme's contract with the employer and it is indeed restrictive:

Clause 3 contains the following sentence.

"The employer will use cyclescheme only and not share provision with other companies without prior written authorisation."

Its restrictive yes however it doesn't rule it out completely though in reality I think they would unlikely to share provision when it is in their gift to or not. I guess it depends on an organisations determination and its size. It may be better for them to compete for 22,000 employees than for it walk away because it refuses to share provision and therefore get nothing out of it.

I can't imagine any of the other facilitators act any differently. Interestingly when I looked more closely at Wiggle's documents it is clear they are not act as a facilitator in the same sense that Halfords or cyclescheme would constitute. They merely provide the employers order form and the employees hire agreement however no contact exists between wiggle and the employer other than the standard seller/buyer relationship.

 

[PeteB99]

It has taken nearly 4 years now to get to where I am now so I am pretty delighted that this is finally likely to be implemented, though carbon footprints had a hand in persuading them and that was from other external sources but at least when I raised it got a more receptive response this time.

I have heard that they Halfords will. Not sure if they can get the Focus Cayo's as Wiggle are the sole UK sellers unless of course they buy them direct from Wiggle then I have my doubts that they will pass it along to me (my Trust - its not mine) at exactly the same cost ie will it still be £999, if not it will take me over the £1000 limit and top ups (ie excess paid over the £1000 to cover the cost of more expensive bikes) will not be permitted as I believe that causes ownership issues which makes for a more complicated scheme and as we are spending public money costly legislative remedies are to be avoided.

To be honest given how good value the Cayo is it will not be the end of the world if I have to get it myself though would prefer to spend to £999 less 33% plus 5% disposal fee ie final cost of around £720 ie £280 - that's a lot of gear.

Halfords bike to work people can order any standard bike from Wiggle (but not sale items or special offers). I've got a Focus Mares Cross on order which should arrive in the next couple of weeks. In our scheme you also get 17% of the bikes worth in Halfords vouchers to spend at the same time on equipment. I've got all the stuff I need really so I'll be stocking up on consumeables (spare chains , cassettes etc) for the Focus and the rest of the fleet.