Cyclecraft - I totally disagree!

[gbb]

Optimal braking as you put it JRG, i assume you are really talking about emergency braking.
This of course is covered on page 65...and indeed recommends harder use of the front and normal use of the back (i assume it means in the same instant..no delay in using the front), shifting of body weight back etc

 

[yello]

David, we agree. The front brake is the stopper. I think this is the bone of contention for me...

You don't just grab the rear brake, you apply it gently, and only a fraction of a second prior to applying the front brake.

I'm not convinced that the application of the rear brake as you say will make much difference, if you are applying the majority of your braking on the front.

I suspect, in practice, it is very very difficult to apply the brakes differently in an emergency situation. Perhaps this is why there is advice not to touch the rear brake in such circumstances... because you risk locking the rear. And, as we agree, locked up brakes and skidding lead to offs.

 

[davidwalton]

David, we agree. The front brake is the stopper. I think this is the bone of contention for me...



I'm not convinced that the application of the rear brake as you say will make much difference, if you are applying the majority of your braking on the front.

It moves the weight on to the front so that when the front brake is pulled on, the weight is already there so far less likely to skid with it.

 

[yello]

I don't agree that rear wheel braking shifts the weight forwards. I suspect that's the nub of it.

 

[davidwalton]

I don't agree that rear wheel braking shifts the weight forwards. I suspect that's the nub of it.

Law of physics says so, but you could experiment and see for yourself if you want. Just be careful as braking front hard without weight forward CAN create problems.

 

[Arch]

Perhaps the advantage of braking on the rear first is that as the bike slows down it causes you to brace without danger of the bike pitching forwards. Then as you brake with the front you're already braced and putting your weight back.

Certainly I remember that that was the way I was taught to brake as a child - rear brake slightly before the front one. Possibly this is a piece of 'recieved wisdom' that has made it into the book. And after all, it's not really bad advice. At worst it's slightly sub-optimal.

I was taught the same. I think that as advice for new cyclists, it's very sensible, and as a person gets more expericenced with the feel of their bike, they'll learn the best techniques as they go. I don't think it's worth experienced folk like us getting bothered over - it would be like Michelin-starred chefs arguing over whether it was right to tell a beginner cook to weight everything out to the last gramme....

These days, I do anything I can to avoid needing to emergency stop, and if I do have to I bung both on pretty much together, close my eyes and hope (Ok, not quite...). Anyway, bearing in mind that each brake is a separate cable, and on most people's bikes I suspect that they are not set to identical adjustment, a fraction of a second's differnce in applying the brake is not necessarily going to make any difference to the brake actually going on....

 

[BentMikey]

I personally try to do an emergency stop each day I go out for a ride. That's saved me from a fall many times now, as I'm better at dealing with braking to the limits and sliding the bike sometimes. That's not to say I'm any good, but only better than I would otherwise have been.

My view on JF's advice is that it's the optimum, in that it gives the best possible maximum braking ability, combined with guaranteed control. TBH, given that most cyclist accidents are rider stuff-ups, that guaranteed control is more important than being able to brake to the limits.

 

[LLB]

The rear brake is not a stopping brake, it is to help you control the bike and keep it from wanting to swap ends. If you are anything except absolutely straight when braking, then the rear brake is a must. If not used, and the front is applied heavily, you will be off.

I trained as a Motorcycle instructor. As an advanced rider, I was also taught to use the brakes the way I have stated, and by Police riders. It works, and works very well. Anything else IMHO is just not doing it right, or being lazy (in both cases an off will happen as a result one day).

It doesn't matter how good your front brakes are, the back of the bike has to be kept under control, or it will want to be the front; and quickly.

I would agree with this in principal. The only reason I have played with the stoppies were not to show off as it can bugger the cartridges in the forks, but to see how much braking force is needed before a front wheel lock up (a lot) and to help find the limits of the bike in controlled conditions so if I do need to reach for an emergency stop in have a very good idea where they are (private industrial estate on a sunday afternoon).

IMO Unless you have actually played with the stoppies, you never really go near the limits of traction under braking on a dry road, and you have to straighten the bike up to apply any braking force as the rear brake on 99% of bikes is a single pot caliper which is less than useful in most braking situations (not good enough to lock the back wheel unless stood on).

I do use the back brake myself, but it is more for comfort in the wet than anything else (started my bike career on dirt bikes where using the front brake with any force nearly always resulted in a lockup)

I also do a lot of counter steering practice as well (muscle memory) when I use the bike as I find it doesn't fall naturally to hand and damn useful when obstacle evasion/line changing is needed as opposed to stopping.

 

[bonj2]

Let's not mix up training for motorbikes and pedal cycles too much. You've got completely different weights and centres of gravity. And this needs to be taken into account when learning how to brake.

plus, to be fair, you don't have as shifting of weight on motorbikes as you do for bikes.