Cyclescheme bicycle condition assessment

[GrasB]

Whilst that's true, that is not what dodgy said.

I know it's not a cyclescheme requirement & that old model bikes from local retails can go through the cyclescheme at heavily discounted rates. When I was looking at a bike through cyclescheme I was offered old model discount with the total discount reduced by 10% after mentioning that it would be purchased through cyclescheme but not one of those retailers would give any discount on a current model bike.

 

[Panter]

The confusion now seems to be what the market value is at the end of the year. More muddled thinking from government. The scheme seems to allow a "self assessment" of condition and so this valuation has absolutely no credibility. Would you tick the "my bike is just like it came out of the factory, please charge be £500" box? And by the end of the year you've already paid for the bike once (less vat, NI and income tax which HMRC decided that they did not want to take at the time). Why should we pay again?

No, it doesn't.

The valuation has to be done by an approved bike shop.

 

[Norm]

No, it doesn't.

The valuation has to be done by an approved bike shop.

Just to clarify, this is also not a general requirement of the Cycle To Work, although specific policies may require independent valuations.

As Cyclescheme is a third party with a very strong vested interest in maximising the valuation, I would be very wary when using them.

Although, yet again, there are very few reasons for any company to outsource any part of their C2W policy to Cyclescheme. Hopefully, employers will soon realise that any good will which is generated by having a C2W policy in place will be completely negated by the crap which people go through.

 

[Nick_B]

No, it doesn't.

The valuation has to be done by an approved bike shop.

I went back to see who's post I'd picked this up from. It was a certain Panter! The line I saw (quoting Cyclescheme) was:

"The employee can self-assess the condition of the bike using Cyclescheme simple yet comprehensive condition guide, or print off the form and take the bike to their local Partner Store for assessment."

 

[Jezston]

Norm: sorry to be a pain, but don't suppose I could hassle you to answer the following?

Another big cycle scheme question bundle!

There are private third party cycle schemes, and then your company can do it itself.

If you employer can go DIY, does this mean you could buy your bike from ANY shop, even one that isn't 'registered' (whatever that entails) to a particular scheme?

If so, what if the shop you want to buy it from is a very small, fairly new business that hasn't got round to doing things like being VAT registered etc?

And if that's do-able, what is there to stop you building a bike yourself and then your employer buying it off your 'shop' under the cycle scheme?

 

[sunnyjim]

You guys have worried me enough to go check my C2W hire agreement (They use Cyclescheme, but the agreement is obviously with the employer)

It says under ' 4.0 Salary sacrifice & hire period'

'At the end of the Hire Period, you will need to discuss with your Employer what is to happen to the Equipment.'

That's it. I haven't agreed to any specific method for valuation, transfer, sale or anything - just that I need to talk to the company about what is to happen to the company's bike which they keep in my house. We can negotiate.

'Fair market value' has to be seen in the context of the market into which the bike would be sold, bearing in mind we are talking about a company selling stuff unrelated to it's core business to the trade, not a consumer buying on the high street.
For many companies the normal method of disposal of well used surplus equipment bought for around £1000 a year ago would be the big skip round the back, regularly emptied by a scrappie who probably pays by the ton.
The company doesn't go hawking any other used equipment round specialist shops or direct to consumers trying to get the best price, so 'values' in that market aren't relevant. That's my story anyway,and I'll stick to it.

 

[shippers]

2 thoughts.
1- how many people will have their bikes stolen half way through month 11, only to buy a very similar one off Ebay the following month?
2- I destroyed a Giant Defy 4. If anyone wants to borrow it for valuation under the bike to work scheme, just give me a shout!

 

[Norm]

Norm: sorry to be a pain, but don't suppose I could hassle you to answer the following?

Oops! Sorry, I thought I'd done that one yesterday. I typed an answer but, well, I'm working now so CC access is limited so I might have had a panic Alt-F4. (I started typing this reply at about 3pm, wonder when it'll get posted)

Your employer would need to accept an invoice from you as a legitimate business supplier, subject to all the due dilligence requirements that your company has. You would need to set yourself up as a business, probably as a sole trader, and most companies would require you to issue an invoice for their asset records.

It might be easier, though, for you to buy the bits on the scheme and not charge for building. I don't think that the regs say that you need to buy a complete bike, but it does say "Eligible equipment includes cycles and cyclists' safety equipment".

 

[Bromptonaut]

The requirement of the dealer is to give a condition assessment according to Cyclescheme guidelines, A,B,C or D. I suspect now that Cyclescheme has been sold the new owners are looking at ways of making even greater profits although I cannot be sure. Giving a D rating to the bike will result in it having a much lower value.

Catrike,

That may be the case in Cyclescheme (who I think we're using next time).But both my employer and the current HMRC guidance require the bike to be valued at the time of sale. Some employers are ignoring the HMRC guidance and may be getting away with out. Our inspector is apparently a stickler for the rules.

 

[Riding in Circles]

Catrike,

That may be the case in Cyclescheme (who I think we're using next time).But both my employer and the current HMRC guidance require the bike to be valued at the time of sale. Some employers are ignoring the HMRC guidance and may be getting away with out. Our inspector is apparently a stickler for the rules.

Valued at time of sale after the lease period?

 

[Panter]

I went back to see who's post I'd picked this up from. It was a certain Panter! The line I saw (quoting Cyclescheme) was:

"The employee can self-assess the condition of the bike using Cyclescheme simple yet comprehensive condition guide, or print off the form and take the bike to their local Partner Store for assessment."

It wasn't me, I was nowhere near it.


*strolls off whistling with hands in pockets*

Sorry, note to self, must read own waffle before commenting on others...




Actually, while I'm here, I thought I'd just add that if your company uses Cyclescheme, they have to opt out of them taking possession of the bike at the end.

I'm not quite sure where/when they snuck that in, last time we ran the scheme that certainly wasn't the case.
Now, nothing's changed, but it was only by a chance email that I discovered we'd opted for Cyclesheme to take the bikes at the end!

Maybe worth checking otherwise the option of free rental at the end may not even be available?

 

[Jezston]

Oops! Sorry, I thought I'd done that one yesterday. I typed an answer but, well, I'm working now so CC access is limited so I might have had a panic Alt-F4. (I started typing this reply at about 3pm, wonder when it'll get posted)

Your employer would need to accept an invoice from you as a legitimate business supplier, subject to all the due dilligence requirements that your company has. You would need to set yourself up as a business, probably as a sole trader, and most companies would require you to issue an invoice for their asset records.

It might be easier, though, for you to buy the bits on the scheme and not charge for building. I don't think that the regs say that you need to buy a complete bike, but it does say "Eligible equipment includes cycles and cyclists' safety equipment".

Thanks, although the admin staff at work when asked were pretty certain it has to include a complete bicycle - hence one chap at work buying an £80 BSO and about £700 on parts to upgrade his mountain bike. Which he rides on the pavement. Which is another story.

Reason I asked was because I'm looking at getting a chap who runs a very small bicycle shop near me to build me a custom bike, much of it based on old sourced parts (old reynolds frame, SA 3-speed hub etc) but he's unable to join cyclescheme because there's certain 'business' aspects of his err business he's never felt a need to getting round to doing - VAT registering, various other things etc. I'm wondering if my employers administer it themselves, they can essentially buy off anyone.

 

[Joseph]

Thanks, although the admin staff at work when asked were pretty certain it has to include a complete bicycle - hence one chap at work buying an £80 BSO and about £700 on parts to upgrade his mountain bike. Which he rides on the pavement. Which is another story.

Reason I asked was because I'm looking at getting a chap who runs a very small bicycle shop near me to build me a custom bike, much of it based on old sourced parts (old reynolds frame, SA 3-speed hub etc) but he's unable to join cyclescheme because there's certain 'business' aspects of his err business he's never felt a need to getting round to doing - VAT registering, various other things etc. I'm wondering if my employers administer it themselves, they can essentially buy off anyone.

Some of the HMRC guidance is here:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim21664.htm

Essentially there's nothing to stop them, but your employer would have to be cooperative. The (only?) advantage of the various cycle2work schemes run by/for the various retailers is that they have all the paperwork sorted out.

The only other potential hurdle is that some of the schemes have an exclusivity provision, preventing your employer sourcing bikes elsewhere if they have signed up to such a scheme.

(There's absolutely no requirement for businesses turning over under ~65K to be VAT registered,)

Joseph

 

[Bromptonaut]

Valued at time of sale after the lease period?

Exactly that. See latest HMRC stuff the meat is on page 2.

 

[Riding in Circles]

Exactly that. See latest HMRC stuff the meat is on page 2.

There is an easy solution, the employer can continue to loan the bike to the employee for free, after say 3 years they could sell it for £20, it is important to keep any original worn out components as these are part of the original cycle and it is these that it must be valued on.