Cycling commuters, a diminishing breed?

[subaqua]

I can don full waterproof clothing if I want and it'll let in a bit around the face and wrists but most of me will be dry for hours. Wind gusts are annoying but I'm used to dealing with them after so many years living on the fens and levels. Ice can be overcome with studded tyres and it's not like any motor vehicles except tractors can move if it gets too bad!


A tired old cliche which is often nonsense. Cars are driven by people who can't see where they're going in torrential rain. Cars become unstable and get stuff blown into them by strong winds. Cars slide on ice without warning, sometimes leaving their occupants upside down in waterways to drown. Unless you have an interest in motoring, the most rational choice from the individual perspective is to use the mode of transport which is fastest for urban/suburban journeys and healthiest, that is cycling for most people. One reason that this isn't realised more widely is that even some cyclists like to talk up how cycling is a tough choice and how jolly brave they are for doing it! If you're not finding cycle-commuting comfortable, you're doing it wrong IMO.

Sometimes you talk rubbish.

and then you craft a brilliant response like this one .

I really didn't want to ride in today but i looked at the alternatives. got on the bike and within 10 minutes was so glad i chose the bike

 

[snorri]

. People don't drive due to an interest in motoring, they drive because they need to get somewhere and for the majority of people the car is the best choice, when speed, comfort and convenience are taken into account.

You don't mention the low cost to the user of driving a private car, this must be a major factor in their popularity, but for how much longer should the general public be called upon to subsidise this noisy, polluting, dangerous and congestion causing mode of transport?

 

[mjr]

All of the problems you mention with driving also apply to cycling...

Well, of course, as I was simply giving the companion driving drawbacks for the cycling problems you mentioned.

At least much of the time when cars slide on ice they don't throw the driver down hard onto tarmac.

No, they throw the driver very very hard into solid objects (if we're lucky) or an innocent bystander halfway down the road like in (WARNING: graphic vehicular violence - click to https://www.facebook.com/sussexpoliceforce if you recognise any of the vehicles or people involved)
View: https://www.facebook.com/sussexpoliceforce/videos/1009277105784513/?fref=nf

People don't drive due to an interest in motoring, they drive because they need to get somewhere and for the majority of people the car is the best choice, when speed, comfort and convenience are taken into account.

Nonsense. Cars are mostly slower for urban/suburban journeys, mostly have rather uncomfortable low seats and mostly can't park anything like as closely and cheaply to the destination as cycles. The reason cars often get used is because they're a default choice and years of motoring marketing and lobbying has made them the default, even for some cyclists.

I really didn't want to ride in today but i looked at the alternatives. got on the bike and within 10 minutes was so glad i chose the bike

Yeah, trying to look up bus alternatives to most journeys I do (or trying to figure out where to park a car and guesstimate how long traffic might delay me) is a real deterrent. Even when I do get a bus or train, I often try to limit it to one central long hop and use the folding bike to/from the stops, rather than messing about changing and waiting and risking being stranded (more of a problem with buses than trains).

 

[jefmcg]

Given the data is 5 years old (at best), I suspect the trend is the opposite. Cycling has really taken off in the past few years, certainly become a lot harder to 'park' my bike both at work & in town.

^^^^^THIS

We should have ended the thread here.

A "trend" piece using figures over a decade long period that ended 1/2 a decade ago? It's just empty clickbait.

 

[al78]

You don't mention the low cost to the user of driving a private car, this must be a major factor in their popularity, but for how much longer should the general public be called upon to subsidise this noisy, polluting, dangerous and congestion causing mode of transport?

It isn't a particularly low cost, partly why I stopped driving just over three years ago.

 

[al78]

Well, of course, as I was simply giving the companion driving drawbacks for the cycling problems you mentioned.


No, they throw the driver very very hard into solid objects (if we're lucky) or an innocent bystander halfway down the road like in (WARNING: graphic vehicular violence - click to https://www.facebook.com/sussexpoliceforce if you recognise any of the vehicles or people involved)
View: https://www.facebook.com/sussexpoliceforce/videos/1009277105784513/?fref=nf


Nonsense. Cars are mostly slower for urban/suburban journeys, mostly have rather uncomfortable low seats and mostly can't park anything like as closely and cheaply to the destination as cycles. The reason cars often get used is because they're a default choice and years of motoring marketing and lobbying has made them the default, even for some cyclists.

Not true all the time, or I suspect even the majority of the time. The rest of the country is not central London. Not all journeys are congested, and cyclists are held up by traffic lights as much as car drivers are, sometimes more so. I would also suspect that the number of motorists who skid on ice and end up causing a serious injury or death is also in the minority, your statement is the classic example of taking the most extreme cases and trying to project them as normal.

Anyway, I'm done now. It is pointless trying to reason with a fanatic, so I am not going to waste any more time and energy trying.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lRIQGU2RRk

 

[mjr]

Not true all the time, or I suspect even the majority of the time. The rest of the country is not central London.

I ride in central London sometimes, but I live five miles by car out of town in a fenland village and you can't get much less central London than here: we've neighbours immediately north and south, but the next house east of here is about 3km away and the farm to the west is 2km away.

Nevertheless, it's true that it's often quicker by bike from here into town and I suspect it's as true in most places that are within two miles of an urban area. I know this is counter-intuitive but I really did time it since moving here: almost every time I cycle it and several times I drive it. When the roads are clear, driving in takes 20 minutes but that quickly increases when the roads are busy, plus you can't usually park as close and often have to pay to park; cycling in takes an average of 22 minutes fairly easy, depends on the wind direction more than the traffic and you can often park close or there are a few large (up to 60-space) cycle parks on the edge.

Driving just can't pull far enough ahead of a bike before slowing down for speed limits and traffic jams. The local bike group used to run a "commuter challenge" each Bike Week and I think the car was only ever faster on one route out of four, where a 40mph road runs to within 200m of the centre and is accompanied by a fiddly, lumpy and discontinuous cycle track... and even then, traffic jams frustrated the cars some years.

cyclists are held up by traffic lights as much as car drivers are, sometimes more so

Not here. By car, I will pass at least 11 sets of traffic lights - 13 to reach the large car parks. By cycle, I can bypass all of them (using cycle tracks that get advisory reds or informal crossings) and I can take a slightly shorter route through a park if I'm going to that side of the town centre. Bikes don't need traffic lights because they merge much better. I'm not surprised if it's not that good in Horsham because WSCC is often accused of hating bikes.

Anyway, I'm done now. It is pointless trying to reason with a fanatic, so I am not going to waste any more time and energy trying.

Funny - I was thinking the same thing and wondering why a motoring fanatic was posting here...

 

[jonny jeez]

About getting a motorbike or scooter. I've given this a modicum of thought...

Suppose I have somewhere important to be. Trains and subway could be subject to delay any time. Cars can get stuck in traffic. Buses are a joke. Cycles are an awesome way of getting around, no doubt about it and is my preferred transport method.

But getting to places all sweaty isn't a bunch of fun if there are no washing facilities at the other end so I thought what has advantages similar to a cycle, doesnt make me sweat, gets to destination faster: a motorbike.

Or an electric bike?

I had a few bikes a motorcycle and a scooter, until I sold off the motorcyle I used all of them.

Scooters are awesome for carry heavy loads whilst still avoiding congestion. Typically I ride a scooter the night before and the morning after a foreign trip (to carry home documents and stuff for the meeting) they also allow you to ride in a suit, in the right weather conditions ( although this isn't recomended).
The scooter/motorbike experience has also made me a better road user, in my opinion, as I have greater awareness or understanding of the issues relating to riding one.

The draw back for me is that the scooter provides no exercise.

but they do make a great deal of sense if you are careful.

 

[jonny jeez]

Could be, but it sounds like an expensive option, why not just take a little more time to your journey?
Cycling should not induce sweating in normal circumstances.

Unless you use it as excercise or sport.

Which I do, so that means sweat, and plenty of it.

 

[Karlt]

Could be, but it sounds like an expensive option, why not just take a little more time to your journey?
Cycling should not induce sweating in normal circumstances.

I defy anyone to get up the hills around here without breaking out into a sweat. You'd have to go so slow you'd fall over.

 

[MarkF]

I defy anyone to get up the hills around here without breaking out into a sweat. You'd have to go so slow you'd fall over.

Same here, on my commute I immediately have a long 10 minute downhill for which I have to be wrapped up, followed by serious climbs, summer or winter I end up sweating.

 

[mjr]

I defy anyone to get up the hills around here without breaking out into a sweat. You'd have to go so slow you'd fall over.

That's rather meaningless without a location. Are you offering travel+accommodation to challengers? I can balance at a standstill for short periods - how slow do you reckon?

U-shaped commutes like @MarkF's are much more of a challenge for temperature control.

 

[swee'pea99]

I used to commute into London until I started working from home about five years ago. When a return from a tour saw me arrive back in town bang on the evening rush hour I was amazed how many cyclists there were. Really. When I was commuting, from sort of 15 years ago to 5-ish, you'd have two or four riders at the lights. Now it was twenty or more. Just a totally different ball game.

 

[Karlt]

That's rather meaningless without a location. Are you offering travel+accommodation to challengers? I can balance at a standstill for short periods - how slow do you reckon?

U-shaped commutes like @MarkF's are much more of a challenge for temperature control.

North East Derbyshire. Commuting Chesterfield-Sheffield. Unless you're going to go 20 miles out of your way you need to climb over two 700' ridges (Coal Aston-Marsh Lane ridge and Meadowhead-Gleadless ridge). These are linked at a fairly high level at Jordanthorpe, so you can avoid the worst of the second, but the first you need to get over from the low lying Rother Valley. It's still 700'-800' climbing in 14-15 miles whichever way you do it, more if you make it interesting. And even if you avoid the steepest climbs, there are still bits where you are going to have to exert considerable effort. All from the easiest route - Exhibit A, series of rises through Unstone Green, Unstone and from Dronfield to Meadowhead. Exhibit B, Darnall to Manor Top along Prince of Wales Road - 2 miles, rise 450'. Exhibit C, Chesterfield Canal to Brimington on B road, max gradient 14%

 

[mjr]

Exhibit A, series of rises through Unstone Green, Unstone and from Dronfield to Meadowhead

Call it stupid but my satnav wants to send me up Hundall Lane Old Whittingham and that looks shallower? The climb up to Norton looks challenging and worse coming back, though.

Exhibit B, Darnall to Manor Top along Prince of Wales Road - 2 miles, rise 450'.

So has my maths failed me or is that only about 4.3% average gradient?

Exhibit C, Chesterfield Canal to Brimington on B road, max gradient 14%

For what, 20 metres? Average on OSM looks like 4%.

I might live on the edge of the fens now, but I lived at the foot of a short Mendip climb (Kewstoke Crookes Lane / Monks Hill: 600m, 12% average, 25% max) for six years and I was often very very slow but it wasn't my sweat corroding the bikes!