Cycling idiocy

[James Blackwell]

Last night on my commute home I stopped at possibly one of the busiest round a bouts in Bristol, "The Bear Pit".
It was about 5pm, so dark, very busy with commuting traffic, shopping traffic and just traffic. There were four bikes stopped at the lights, which was good, stopping at red lights. On those four bikes there was the total of:
1 helmet
4 lights (two front, two back)
1 high vis jacket.
And they were all on my bike.
I can't help thinking that cyclist can only start claiming being victims of bad road users when we all help ourselves. On know I'm preaching to the converted on here, but thank you for letting me vent.

James

 

[steveindenmark]

Sorry but you cannot criticise other cyclists on here it is a cycling forum......thats the rule.

It must be the drivers fault that the cyclists didnt have lights and helmets to keep them safe.

Steve

 

[morrisman]

Lights will keep you safe, helmets protect you if you have an accident they do not keep you safe.

 

[rbreid]

Last night on my commute home I stopped at possibly one of the busiest round a bouts in Bristol, "The Bear Pit".
It was about 5pm, so dark, very busy with commuting traffic, shopping traffic and just traffic. There were four bikes stopped at the lights, which was good, stopping at red lights. On those four bikes there was the total of:
1 helmet
4 lights (two front, two back)
1 high vis jacket.
And they were all on my bike.
I can't help thinking that cyclist can only start claiming being victims of bad road users when we all help ourselves. On know I'm preaching to the converted on here, but thank you for letting me vent.

James

Oh tut tut! Cyclists can do no wrong you know How dare you criticise these idiots free thinking individuals, would you deny them their high risk sport adrenalin rush....shame on you
Pulls up chair, pours tea and waits for the fall out

 

[downfader]

I can't help thinking that cyclist can only start claiming being victims of bad road users when we all help ourselves. On know I'm preaching to the converted on here, but thank you for letting me vent.

So if one woman is an idiot, all women affected by sexual discrimination should STFU?
So if one black man is a mugger, the millions who arent should be looked upon in suspicion..?

Think carefully about what you've written and draw parallels. Yes they're idiots, no they should not be seen as a standard or an excuse for inaction. Have you passed on concerns about known problem areas to the Police?

 

[I like Skol]

So if one woman is an idiot, all women affected by sexual discrimination should STFU?
So if one black man is a mugger, the millions who arent should be looked upon in suspicion..?

Think carefully about what you've written and draw parallels. Yes they're idiots, no they should not be seen as a standard or an excuse for inaction. Have you passed on concerns about known problem areas to the Police?

I think James's point is that the sensible, law abiding cyclist is the minority so how can we fairly suggest that it is unreasonable to suspect a cyclist's innocence in an incident when the whole world and his dog knows that most* cyclists do not use lights at night, ride on the pavement and ignore traffic lights.

I do of course expect the investigation into any accident/incident to be fair and each situation is different so automatic assumption of guilt in either direction would be wrong. Without wanting to put words into James's mouth, I think what he is trying to say is that in the investigation following an accident/incident, the guilt of the cyclist has to be considered, along with all other factors and possibilities.

*My own finger in the air guesstimate would be that on my 10 mile dark commute the ratio of bikes with and without lights and bikes riding on the pavement or the road would be substantially over 50% biased towards the wrongdoers (and this excludes teenagers who are really the responsibility of their parents and might not know any better.)

 

[James Blackwell]

I know all the equipment mentioned does not keep you safe, but you have to help yourself first.
There are those who choose to not help themselves, we all have a duty of care to ourselves and others. The police are very visible since a number of bad accidents involving cyclists recently in Bristol too. Would you drive a car in the dark with no lights? Of course not, that would be irresponsible. I was not making assumptions or drawing parralells, but when u look at it from that perspective, its difficult to see how other road users can take us seriously.

 

[theclaud]

Last night on my commute home I stopped at possibly one of the busiest round a bouts in Bristol, "The Bear Pit".
It was about 5pm, so dark, very busy with commuting traffic, shopping traffic and just traffic. There were four bikes stopped at the lights, which was good, stopping at red lights. On those four bikes there was the total of:
1 helmet
4 lights (two front, two back)
1 high vis jacket.
And they were all on my bike.
I can't help thinking that cyclist can only start claiming being victims of bad road users when we all help ourselves. On know I'm preaching to the converted on here, but thank you for letting me vent.

James

Not to the converted - but you are preaching, and it's not very attractive. The people you are preaching to include people who ride a lot, know a lot, have thought a lot about all this stuff, and have heard all this self-righteous rubbish a zillion times before.

 

[ianrauk]

I do find it funny that people get upset at non helmet wearing and dark clothing wearers.

 

[rbreid]

Selective reading at work? He has observed what many of us see on a daily basis and is saddened by it. Incidentally the self righteous tag is often in the remit of those same law breakers. Unfortunate that the OP used the word preaching because it will be taken out of context and mask the fact that they had no lights. I no longer feel I am "a cyclist" in the current public perception of these words thanks to the behaviour of so many like those observed by the OP. Having cycled for over fifty years I now find myself in the uncomfortable position of being ashamed by the behaviour around me and now refer to myself as a "Law abiding cyclist" Self righteous of me....perhaps.... but driven by frustration and shame. Plenty in this post to misread....have a field day......

 

[steveindenmark]

I gave one to a dog Walker the other week. She uses it every day now.

Funnily enough giving one to a cyclist just does not seem right, somehow.
I feel as they should know the score.

Steve

 

[theclaud]

Selective reading at work? He has observed what many of us see on a daily basis and is saddened by it. Incidentally the self righteous tag is often in the remit of those same law breakers. Unfortunate that the OP used the word preaching because it will be taken out of context and mask the fact that they had no lights. I no longer feel I am "a cyclist" in the current public perception of these words thanks to the behaviour of so many like those observed by the OP. Having cycled for over fifty years I now find myself in the uncomfortable position of being ashamed by the behaviour around me and now refer to myself as a "Law abiding cyclist" Self righteous of me....perhaps.... but driven by frustration and shame. Plenty in this post to misread....have a field day......

I'm not saddened by people not wearing hi-viz and helmets. I'm gladdened by it. I'm saddened when I see groups of schoolchildren wearing hi-viz vests. But I suppose kids walking to school "can only start claiming being victims of bad road users when they help themselves" or some other such nonsense.

 

[downfader]

I think James's point is that the sensible, law abiding cyclist is the minority so how can we fairly suggest that it is unreasonable to suspect a cyclist's innocence in an incident when the whole world and his dog knows that most* cyclists do not use lights at night, ride on the pavement and ignore traffic lights.

I do of course expect the investigation into any accident/incident to be fair and each situation is different so automatic assumption of guilt in either direction would be wrong. Without wanting to put words into James's mouth, I think what he is trying to say is that in the investigation following an accident/incident, the guilt of the cyclist has to be considered, along with all other factors and possibilities.

*My own finger in the air guesstimate would be that on my 10 mile dark commute the ratio of bikes with and without lights and bikes riding on the pavement or the road would be substantially over 50% biased towards the wrongdoers (and this excludes teenagers who are really the responsibility of their parents and might not know any better.)

Your own area may not be representative of other areas. As I and others say - look at the bigger picture. A parallel route near you may have high densities of lit riders, this can be because of affluence, riders on rough estates sometimes have this fear of drawing attention etc. There are all kinds of factors going on...

The Police do look at lighting when they investigate a collision. If people feel its that serious a problem perhaps they should join the local campaign and do as Adrian said - buy a bulk of cheap lights and hand them out. I've given lights, brake pads, etc to workmates in the past. Its better to be proactive.

 

[I like Skol]

Did you know that you can buy a flasher from Planet-X for £2 each. For the price of a pint you can give an unit idiot a pair. Alternatively we can have yet another thread on the subject.

You keep saying this every time the topic comes up for discussion. I guess you are a poor, broken man, having given the last of your meagre income away in the form of cheap lights to unappreciative bike riders?

 

[snorri]

Everyone knows its lycra wearers that get cyclists a bad name regardless of how they cycle, lights and helmets are well done the hate list.