Cycling motorists

[Arch]

The point behind having to pass through cycle and motorcycle phase to learn to drive, I've always felt, is one of empathy. When you've been a cyclist, you know how scary/annoying/downright dangerous bad driving or motorbike riding is. So you come onto the motorbike stage understanding that, and you find out all about the things people do that are dangerous/annoying to bikers (I imagine, since I've never ridden a motorbike), that some people are poor at assessing their speed, or their need to avoid slippy hazards. In a car, then, you know to make good judgements about cyclists, and bikers.

I'd make the car training involve larger vehicles too - on a test track if necessary. Then drivers would understand how much space a large vehicle needs to make a turn, and how big blind spots can be, and how long it can take to build up speed. It's all about understanding other people's needs.

 

[purplepolly]

Yesterday afternoon, I was going round a roundabout with lanes clearly marked, and some old git cut clean across the entire roundabout, straight across three lanes, caused one car to swerve, and nearly went straight into me on my motorbike! He then pootled on round the roundabout, no indicators, completely unaware of the carnage he had almost caused.

I find it's those types of drivers who scare the crap out of me when I'm on my pushbike - they go past with millimetres to spare and have no clue that they've almost killed me. Their awareness of their position and speed on the road, road markings and other road users is virtually nil.

People who started driving during ww2 didn't have to pass a test and their provisional licenses were converted to full licenses in 1947, also without a test. My grandmother was one of these - the first time she drove was when my grandfather was ill at an army camp. She took a couple of turns round the block, tied my mother to the passenger seat and off she went to visit him.

So people who are still driving in their eighties and nineties may never have had any formal training.

 

[Dan B]

Yes, the "empathy" point is a good one. Which is sort of what I was originally getting at: what do motorcyclists want car drivers to be aware of as regards motorbikes, that they couldn't learn by riding a pedal cycle? Not being a motorcyclist I don't know.

Good point on the HGV thing. Could even do it in a simulator, at least to some extent: the hazard perception and theory tests already run on computers, so it wouldn't be a massive expenditure to upgrade them to cope with providing a "driving a vehicle you can't see out of" lesson or three.

 

[Arch]

Yes, the "empathy" point is a good one. Which is sort of what I was originally getting at: what do motorcyclists want car drivers to be aware of as regards motorbikes, that they couldn't learn by riding a pedal cycle? Not being a motorcyclist I don't know.

Well, I'd assume it's a question of scale, in terms of power and speed. For example, a cyclist who spots a wet manhole cover ahead, while doing 15mph has more time to react than a biker doing 30 or more.

Good point on the HGV thing. Could even do it in a simulator, at least to some extent: the hazard perception and theory tests already run on computers, so it wouldn't be a massive expenditure to upgrade them to cope with providing a "driving a vehicle you can't see out of" lesson or three.

A simulator is one thing, but I'd favour the real thing. Unless a simulator is very good, there's nothing like the feel of being so high up, and knowing the sheer size and weight of the vehicle behind you. The sheer physical feel of the suspension dipping when you brake hard and so on. I've driven up to 7.5 tonners and it's made me so much more aware of turning circles and so on. And partly, I think people have to feel it for real. A simulator is always just a simulator, and I think some people need a little bit of real risk to get the point. Obviously, you'd have to make it as safe as possible, but you could, for example, do real emergency stops on a large track or airfield, and then, once they'd stopped shaking, take people to look at how far it took to stop. Actually, that would be good even in a car, to get the importance of stopping distances across.

Sure, it would be expensive, but what price a life? Personally, I'd like it to be harder for people to be out on the road - if that means some people failing ever to pass the test, so be it. With more people unable to drive (assuming good enforcement to ensure people weren't driving unlicensed), we might also see more people taking to bikes (good for all of us) or taking public transport, and thereby forcing improvements in that too....

Also, of course, periodic retesting.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

The point behind having to pass through cycle and motorcycle phase to learn to drive, I've always felt, is one of empathy. When you've been a cyclist, you know how scary/annoying/downright dangerous bad driving or motorbike riding is. So you come onto the motorbike stage understanding that, and you find out all about the things people do that are dangerous/annoying to bikers (I imagine, since I've never ridden a motorbike), that some people are poor at assessing their speed, or their need to avoid slippy hazards. In a car, then, you know to make good judgements about cyclists, and bikers.

I'd make the car training involve larger vehicles too - on a test track if necessary. Then drivers would understand how much space a large vehicle needs to make a turn, and how big blind spots can be, and how long it can take to build up speed. It's all about understanding other people's needs.

I wholeheartedly support the empathy thing and compulsory training on different sorts of vehicles to get people walking a mile in each other's shoes.

I'd add that everyone should also have to walk a mile in some shoes .. along a middle-size A road with no path where the traffic goes past extremely close at "only" 50mph. Just to experience what that feels like.

 

[Arch]

I'd add that everyone should also have to walk a mile in some shoes .. along a middle-size A road with no path where the traffic goes past extremely close at "only" 50mph. Just to experience what that feels like.

Oh yes, indeed.

Or, sit people in an office chair on a runway, and get a stunt driver (or other very competent person) to drive increasingly large vehicles past them with inches to spare..