skudupnorth
Cycling Skoda lover
- Location
- Astley,Manchester
Totally agree that cycling has improved my driving.....pity there are so many idiots behind other wheels that obviously do not cycle !
Cyclists wot Drive
- Thread starter moralcrusader
- Start date
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I cycle, drive and walk. I used also to ride a motorcycle and drive small HGVs.
I am poor-to-average at all of the above, sadly. It hurts to admit that.
However, I think that anything you do in traffic informs everything else you do in traffic, whatever the form of transport.
I cycle in town the way I used to ride a motorcycle when working as a courier.
As far as HGV experience goes, I think there is some sort of advantage for cyclists and drivers in knowing how things look from a cab that's a long way above the tarmac (and when the driver is sitting over or in front of the front wheels).
With all the mirrors in the world, you just can't see as much as some people think you can.
In a perfect world everyone would be brilliant at driving or riding everything, but none of us is - and a perfect world would be very dull.
But in answer to the OP question:
Yes, I think there's plenty I do on a bicycle because of things I've observed on or in other modes of road transport I've used.
(Example: Racing a motorcycle, you can tip/chuck the thing into a corner quickly if you sork of knock/jerk the bars slightly against the corner you are about to make. That tips the 'bike right over and then you lean with it and you're halfway round already. I can't make that work on a road bike (fear and caution), but I do it on an MTB with big, wide bars. I have no idea whether it makes sense, but it feels right because of what I used to do on a motorcycle with clip-ons.)
I am poor-to-average at all of the above, sadly. It hurts to admit that.
However, I think that anything you do in traffic informs everything else you do in traffic, whatever the form of transport.
I cycle in town the way I used to ride a motorcycle when working as a courier.
As far as HGV experience goes, I think there is some sort of advantage for cyclists and drivers in knowing how things look from a cab that's a long way above the tarmac (and when the driver is sitting over or in front of the front wheels).
With all the mirrors in the world, you just can't see as much as some people think you can.
In a perfect world everyone would be brilliant at driving or riding everything, but none of us is - and a perfect world would be very dull.
But in answer to the OP question:
Yes, I think there's plenty I do on a bicycle because of things I've observed on or in other modes of road transport I've used.
(Example: Racing a motorcycle, you can tip/chuck the thing into a corner quickly if you sork of knock/jerk the bars slightly against the corner you are about to make. That tips the 'bike right over and then you lean with it and you're halfway round already. I can't make that work on a road bike (fear and caution), but I do it on an MTB with big, wide bars. I have no idea whether it makes sense, but it feels right because of what I used to do on a motorcycle with clip-ons.)
mumbo jumbo
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham
I'm a completely different driver now to my pre-cycling self. 26 years driving and I've still not had a "proper" accident (apart from reversing into a bollard). I definitely fancied myself as what I considered to be a "good driver", far better able than most drivers to judge relative speeds / distances etc. But that was from the perspective of "if it can be done, I'll do it and as long as nobody gets hurt, what's the problem?". I shudder to think of the obscenities I would scream at my former self
.
These days I'm an extremely boring and much more risk-aware driver. Unusually, I had to drive to work today. I accelerated to overtake a cyclist on the Stratford Road but relented (in good time!) on seeing a pinch point ahead. Got a cheery wave and thumbs up when I passed him shortly afterwards.
mj
These days I'm an extremely boring and much more risk-aware driver. Unusually, I had to drive to work today. I accelerated to overtake a cyclist on the Stratford Road but relented (in good time!) on seeing a pinch point ahead. Got a cheery wave and thumbs up when I passed him shortly afterwards.
mj
Mj,
You make a good point, I too consider myself to be a much more considerate driver these days, certainly where cyclists are concerned, but even to the extent of looking after my car by avoiding potholes etc that you naturally try to do on a bike.
But the main thing you reminded me of was when I first started cycling I was always appreciative of considerate motorists, making sure I thanked them with a wave in the hope that it would give them a good feeling and they'd do it again. But I've just realised that now, 3 years on, despite cycling every day I can't remember the last time I went out of my way to show my appreciation to a good driver. I know it's a romantic concept but surely the more we visibly appreciate good driving the more cyclists will benefit in future?
You make a good point, I too consider myself to be a much more considerate driver these days, certainly where cyclists are concerned, but even to the extent of looking after my car by avoiding potholes etc that you naturally try to do on a bike.
But the main thing you reminded me of was when I first started cycling I was always appreciative of considerate motorists, making sure I thanked them with a wave in the hope that it would give them a good feeling and they'd do it again. But I've just realised that now, 3 years on, despite cycling every day I can't remember the last time I went out of my way to show my appreciation to a good driver. I know it's a romantic concept but surely the more we visibly appreciate good driving the more cyclists will benefit in future?
hotmetal
Senior Member
- Location
- Near Windsor
Yeah, I definitely agree that the more vehicles you drive, the more points of view and other's problems you can anticipate/appreciate. I've always cycled since childhood, driven a car for over half my life and passed my IAM test on a 1 litre motorbike. All these experiences are transferrable and contribute to better driving/riding, and courtesy to other road users. I overtake cyclists the way I would like to be overtaken when I'm cycling. Like the poster above, I also like to delude myself that showing appreciation for others' good driving will increase the incidence of good driving (or at least tolerance of other types of vehicle). I try to thank cars for hanging back or giving me room, and always wave (if safe) to anyone who makes a bit of space for me to filter/overtake if I'm on the motorbike.
What I find annoying are comments like one I read in a motorbike mag recently that says "all cyclists hate you". Clearly that's b******s as there are plenty of us who ride both kinds of bike. Still, I suppose it sells magazines *sigh*
>(Example: Racing a motorcycle, you can tip/chuck the thing into a corner quickly … what I used to do on a motorcycle with clip-ons.)
That's counter-steering and is all to do with gyroscopic precession, the difference in radius between the centre and edge of the tyre etc etc and is a technique that they teach you in the IAM and also 'race' schools like the Keith Code one. On motorbikes the effect of steering the 'wrong' way to get the bike to tip in only works above 15-20mph. Below that and you have to point the wheel in the intended direction of travel. I don't know if bicycles being lighter or having bigger wheels alters the speed at which the effect starts to work though. I suspect that it's one of those things that just happens automatically at the relevant speed - whatever kind of bike you're on. If it didn't, people would just fall off. When I say the IAM 'teaches' it, what they're teaching you is how to be consciously aware of it, and learn to use it for rapid changes of line mid-corner (if a corner tightens up or to avoid an oil spill for example). I think that with road bicycles (certainly my Giant TCR), the damn things are so light and twitchy anyway that consciously nudging the bars "à la moto" would probably put me in a hedge!
What I find annoying are comments like one I read in a motorbike mag recently that says "all cyclists hate you". Clearly that's b******s as there are plenty of us who ride both kinds of bike. Still, I suppose it sells magazines *sigh*
>(Example: Racing a motorcycle, you can tip/chuck the thing into a corner quickly … what I used to do on a motorcycle with clip-ons.)
That's counter-steering and is all to do with gyroscopic precession, the difference in radius between the centre and edge of the tyre etc etc and is a technique that they teach you in the IAM and also 'race' schools like the Keith Code one. On motorbikes the effect of steering the 'wrong' way to get the bike to tip in only works above 15-20mph. Below that and you have to point the wheel in the intended direction of travel. I don't know if bicycles being lighter or having bigger wheels alters the speed at which the effect starts to work though. I suspect that it's one of those things that just happens automatically at the relevant speed - whatever kind of bike you're on. If it didn't, people would just fall off. When I say the IAM 'teaches' it, what they're teaching you is how to be consciously aware of it, and learn to use it for rapid changes of line mid-corner (if a corner tightens up or to avoid an oil spill for example). I think that with road bicycles (certainly my Giant TCR), the damn things are so light and twitchy anyway that consciously nudging the bars "à la moto" would probably put me in a hedge!
Hey, Hottie, 
long time no see.
Without investigating the physics, I had that discussion here a long time ago and went out on the MTB (2.2" tyres) down the Marlow Road (the steep hill from Maidenhead down onto the A404 near Marlow) and I couldn't get it to "counter-steer".
I only hit about 30 down that hill (fast enough on that road and on 2.2" off road rubber
) but, as far as I could tell, moving the bars to the left changed the bike's direction the same way.
long time no see. Without investigating the physics, I had that discussion here a long time ago and went out on the MTB (2.2" tyres) down the Marlow Road (the steep hill from Maidenhead down onto the A404 near Marlow) and I couldn't get it to "counter-steer".
I only hit about 30 down that hill (fast enough on that road and on 2.2" off road rubber
) but, as far as I could tell, moving the bars to the left changed the bike's direction the same way.Hotmetal, what you say (the science bit) makes some sort of sense to me.
I have no idea about the maths of it...
I always figures that by initially steering (albeit minutely) in the opposite direction, you were tipping the bike using its own weight and momentum, which you could then harness as part of your own diveintothe bend the other way.
... which may sound like a lot of old nonsense to the scientifically literate.
Whether it works or not on an MTB, I do find myself doing it and believing in it... I'd try it on a road bike, but it feels all wrong... the geometry, my slightly jockey-like position and the angle of my wrists all militate against using the technique on a road bike.
I have no idea about the maths of it...
I always figures that by initially steering (albeit minutely) in the opposite direction, you were tipping the bike using its own weight and momentum, which you could then harness as part of your own diveintothe bend the other way.
... which may sound like a lot of old nonsense to the scientifically literate.
Whether it works or not on an MTB, I do find myself doing it and believing in it... I'd try it on a road bike, but it feels all wrong... the geometry, my slightly jockey-like position and the angle of my wrists all militate against using the technique on a road bike.
