Determine max HR on a smart trainer

[ridgerider2]

Is there a standard do-it-yourself ERG test for determining your maximum HR on a smart trainer?
Example, warm-up at 60% FTP for 10 minutes then increase by 10 watts every 30 seconds until you can't ride anymore.
Shouldn't that be close enough to your max HR without an official stress test?
Is there an accepted RAMP test (interval times, watts, and duration) that can be used periodically to check your max HR?
Or is the accepted practice you need someone to scream at you to keep pushing then catch you when you pass out?

 

[Joffey]

Just go hell for leather until you collapse!

 

[S-Express]

Is there a standard do-it-yourself ERG test for determining your maximum HR on a smart trainer?
Example, warm-up at 60% FTP for 10 minutes then increase by 10 watts every 30 seconds until you can't ride anymore.
Shouldn't that be close enough to your max HR without an official stress test?
Is there an accepted RAMP test (interval times, watts, and duration) that can be used periodically to check your max HR?
Or is the accepted practice you need someone to scream at you to keep pushing then catch you when you pass out?

Establishing MHR on a trainer is no different in principle to establishing it in the real world. Most techniques involve riding up a long, steady incline while increasing your effort the nearer you get to the top. Aim to be at 100% effort as you near the top. Use the highest number you see as your MHR. MHR doesn't need 'periodic checking' as such, it only needs updating if you ever record a higher number. You can typically expect MHR to decrease by 1-2bpm each year, but that doesn't mean you need to re-test every year.

 

[theboxers]

Make sure you have sufficient cooling around you. Heat can lower your MHR but 10 or more BPM, particularly with indoor training. Get a fan, get a bigger fan, get an even bigger fan.

 

[S-Express]

Heat can lower your MHR but 10 or more BPM,

Would like to see some more info on this if you have a link?

 

[theboxers]

Would like to see some more info on this if you have a link?

I've read it previously somewhere, can't find it now. But from experience, when I have had issues with fans, I have been unable to reach my normal (all be it low) working heart rate. I'll initially get to my normal working rate but very quickly over heat and the BPM drops back down no matter how hard I try to push it.

A sort of a self limiting system. The heart will go as fast as it can for the conditions. If you get too hot it will not function properly so give a lower BPM, to keep your temperature down the heart rate limits the amount of work you can do. It will not allow you to put more heat into the system than it can get rid of. That was my understanding of the stuff I read.

 

[S-Express]

I've read it previously somewhere, can't find it now. But from experience, when I have had issues with fans, I have been unable to reach my normal (all be it low) working heart rate. I'll initially get to my normal working rate but very quickly over heat and the BPM drops back down no matter how hard I try to push it.

A sort of a self limiting system. The heart will go as fast as it can for the conditions. If you get too hot it will not function properly so give a lower BPM, to keep your temperature down the heart rate limits the amount of work you can do. It will not allow you to put more heat into the system than it can get rid of. That was my understanding of the stuff I read.

I only ask because generally speaking, your HR will naturally go higher in hot conditions, not lower...

 

[screenman]

When you see your max number give it more, because you will almost certainly have a wee bit left in the tank.

 

[theboxers]

I only ask because generally speaking, your HR will naturally go higher in hot conditions, not lower...

Yes that is true.

But from what I remember. The limitation is getting rid of heat generated. Your body can only get rid of so much heat without evaporative cooling. So it will limit the amount of heat you try to put into it, through work, by limiting the heart rate. The quicker you can get rid of heat the easier it is to get a higher heart rate. iirc.

 

[S-Express]

But from what I remember. The limitation is getting rid of heat generated. Your body can only get rid of so much heat without evaporative cooling. So it will limit the amount of heat you try to put into it, through work, by limiting the heart rate. The quicker you can get rid of heat the easier it is to get a higher heart rate. iirc.

I don't think that's correct. That would imply that it is not possible to ride at maximum performance in hot conditions, when it obviously is. The heart compensates for the higher ambient temperature by beating faster, not slower.

 

[theboxers]

I don't think that's correct. That would imply that it is not possible to ride at maximum performance in hot conditions, when it obviously is. The heart compensates for the higher ambient temperature by beating faster, not slower.

I may not be able to put down what I read correctly, because I can't find the info I read. You are correct in what you say about rising heart rates in hot conditions and that that in and of itself is not a limit on max performance.

What I do remember is it is the lack of cooling that creates the problem. Most of the time riding, running or doing many other forms of high intensity activity we are moving through the air which is aiding the cooling. In an indoor environment on a tread mill, turbo trainer or similar piece of equipment that air movement is minimal, unless a fans are used. That is where the issues arise iirc.

I will go off hunting again to find the stuff I read. If I can't find it I'll let you know.

 

[ridgerider2]

What I am looking for is a standard test for max HR you can run on a smart trainer.
My example was to ride at 60% FTP as a warm-up for 10 minutes then up FTP by 10% every 30 seconds until you can't turn the cranks and you collapse from the pain/exhaustion. Or as S-Express mentioned a long steady incline after the 10 minute warm-up, say X% slope for X minutes with maximum effort the last X seconds.
I figured a standard stress test must include some parameters and guidelines to follow. I doubt you can just jump on a trainer at 200% FTP and pedal until you drop and get reliable results.
Since you can create pre-defined workouts for a smart trainer based on power, % FTP, or % incline, I was hoping there was a standard setup for cycling.
As far as heat/cold goes it does make sense to run a fan on high for the test or two fans.
I read that swimming, cycling, and running all have a different max HR in escalating order. If that's the case then max HR while out of the saddle stomping on the pedals must be slightly different than turning the cranks while seated with hands on the drops or arms extended on aero bars.
Perhaps there isn't a standard test published to avoid liability issues. "I followed your HR test steps and broke my hand falling off the bike." ;-)

 

[Milkfloat]

Make sure you have sufficient cooling around you. Heat can lower your MHR but 10 or more BPM, particularly with indoor training. Get a fan, get a bigger fan, get an even bigger fan.

I don't think you mean MHR, you probably mean power/watts.

 

[borchgrevink]

For me, at least, I never reach MHR on my bike. I have to do a hard run to reach it. When riding my readings are usually 10 beats less. I think most people have it similar, because more muscles are used when running compared to riding. Super fit riders will of course be different.

A related issue is this: Should I as both a runner and rider operate with different MHR when calculating zones?

 

[S-Express]

For me, at least, I never reach MHR on my bike. I have to do a hard run to reach it. When riding my readings are usually 10 beats less. I think most people have it similar, because more muscles are used when running compared to riding. Super fit riders will of course be different.

A related issue is this: Should I as both a runner and rider operate with different MHR when calculating zones?

MHR on a bike will not relate you to your running MHR. The number will be different and so, therefore will the zones.