Difference in Company Attitude

[Deleted member 26715]

We were due to go to Florida last October which we obviously couldn't do, in June I contacted Disney as I had already bought the tickets & they without charge moved the tickets to September this year. TUI on the other hand they charged £350 (£50 per person) to change the date as it was us not them that wanted to make the change, had we waited until August they would have done this for free.

So today I have been back onto Disney as we do not feel that it will still be safe to go to Florida in September, not an issue with them, they fully understood the concerns, they refunded the £3K back to my credit card without an argument & wished to see us in the future once everything with the virus is sorted out.

I then rang TUI, totally different story, yes they were willing for me to cancel the holiday, but there would be no refund of the £2100 deposit I had already paid, yes I know that's the T&C's I agreed to, but Disney have the same, so all we can do now is wait until probably mid August to see if TUI themselves cancel the holiday.

Rant over for now.

 

[Beebo]

Very poor from TUI.
Why not wait and see if TUI cancel before you have to make the final payment. You run the risk that they won’t but what do you have to lose.

 

[BorderReiver]

I don't think anyone knows how safe or otherwise travel will be in September - it is still 8 months off, we are at the start of a global vaccine rollout, and look at how much has happened in the last 8 months. If travel is still unsafe in September then TUI would have to refund your money but trying to plan that far ahead in the middle of fast-moving global pandemic isn't realisitic. Well done to Disney but I can see where TUI are coming from as well.

 

[Cathryn]

I think this is a USA/UK thing. We lived in the States for 7 years and were blown away by the customer service on a daily basis. When we moved back here, we were quite horrified by the unwillingness to help that we regularly encountered. I think in the US, people are more positive - there's a general consensus that 'yes, we can do that' whereas, in the UK, there's a sharp intake of breath through the teeth. That filters down to customer service. Such a shame.

 

[vickster]

I had a differvent experience, I was due to go to US and Canada last May...my Florida to Montreal (via NYC) flight got cancelled and Delta refused to refund (booked through Expedia), only provide a credit note to be used on a Delta domestic flight within 12 months. Sod that, as in contravention of the rules on cancelled flights, I did a chargeback thorough my credit card. No issue with BA waving fees and refunding my paid for seat on similarly cancelled flights

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Very poor from TUI.
Why not wait and see if TUI cancel before you have to make the final payment. You run the risk that they won’t but what do you have to lose.

That's what we are intending to do

I don't think anyone knows how safe or otherwise travel will be in September - it is still 8 months off, we are at the start of a global vaccine rollout, and look at how much has happened in the last 8 months. If travel is still unsafe in September then TUI would have to refund your money but trying to plan that far ahead in the middle of fast-moving global pandemic isn't realisitic. Well done to Disney but I can see where TUI are coming from as well.

TBH maybe I'm a vaccine sceptic, as I know I'm a sceptic about most stuff, I've never seen a half full glass, but I honestly can't see the vaccine being the end of this, I can see it being an annual thing for quite some time.

I think this is a USA/UK thing. We lived in the States for 7 years and were blown away by the customer service on a daily basis. When we moved back here, we were quite horrified by the unwillingness to help that we regularly encountered. I think in the US, people are more positive - there's a general consensus that 'yes, we can do that' whereas, in the UK, there's a sharp intake of breath through the teeth. That filters down to customer service. Such a shame.

I remember our first visit to the US coming up 30 years ago, we spent 3 great weeks there, landed in Gatwick got picked up by a minibus & was coming up the M1 when we stopped for toilets & something to eat, walked into whatever fast food place it was at the services to be greet with "Yeah wadda U want" not Welcome to xxxxxxx what can I get for you today, we knew we were home.

I had a differvent experience, I was due to go to US and Canada last May...my Florida to Montreal (via NYC) flight got cancelled and Delta refused to refund (booked through Expedia), only provide a credit note to be used on a Delta domestic flight within 12 months. Sod that, as in contravention of the rules on cancelled flights, I did a chargeback thorough my credit card

Not sure I have that option in fact I'm fairly sure I don't.

 

[vickster]

That's what we are intending to do
TBH maybe I'm a vaccine sceptic, as I know I'm a sceptic about most stuff, I've never seen a half full glass, but I honestly can't see the vaccine being the end of this, I can see it being an annual thing for quite some time.
I remember our first visit to the US coming up 30 years ago, we spent 3 great weeks there, landed in Gatwick got picked up by a minibus & was coming up the M1 when we stopped for toilets & something to eat, walked into whatever fast food place it was at the services to be greet with "Yeah wadda U want" not Welcome to xxxxxxx what can I get for you today, we knew we were home.
Not sure I have that option in fact I'm fairly sure I don't.

You may if they cancel and refuse to refund. Not if you decide not to go but they don’t cancel.
You may also have an option through travel insurance if you have a Covid comprehensive policy

 

[CanucksTraveller]

I'll be clear, this isn't an outright defence of TUI (I no longer have a dog in that fight), but I did used to work for TUI at head office and I'd often be present on board meetings so I understand how they work and I can at least give you a bit of an insight. First, they're operating on very different levels of capital to Disney, so we're not quite comparing apples with apples here. A behemoth of a company the size of Disney is better able to absorb shocks in the market somewhat better than TUI UK+I can. It's a different tactic that Disney have: Refund and just hope the buyer comes back - Most will, some won't, so it's not without risks although of course it's admirable if you can afford to do it.

And then I'm not sure what Disney's insurance situation is, but for UK tour operators it's a hard, hard area; I'd often speak to UK Government on behalf of TUI during various smaller crises, and one thing the MD always said to me prior to meetings with FCO and DfT was that where a destination was risky or borderline, we might as well push for a change in FCO travel advice to "do not travel", because anything short of that doesn't help the tour operator. It's at that exact point (a UK travel advice change) that the company's insurance kicks in, but lacking that change, then the tour company ends up suffering really badly if it starts to do refunds. I remember when various "ripples" in the market happened, attacks in Sharm el Sheikh and Tunisia... TUI had a lot of requests, (thousands) to cancel holidays to roughly similar destinations, so the likes of Turkey, Morocco etc; I remember the MD saying that if we simply refunded everyone out of "good will" we'd also simply be bankrupt in days. The tactic was (and is) to sit it out, and try to offer to move those bookings to some point in the future when it becomes clear that's necessary.

TUI can and do refund customers, but it's not the preferred thing when FCO advice still allows travel or if travel may / should be possible on the booking date. And as you recognise, a deposit is a deposit, so TUI and most other companies of that size will generally keep the deposit if a customer decides they want a refund when there's still the possibility of moving the dates. I've seen Customer Service at TUI do refunds of deposits before, but they'll be on an individual basis (for example family bereavement or similar, not something like a wider crisis that will go away to some degree at some point).

If there's any moral in the story here it's to sit and wait until the tour operator cancels you, (and I see you're doing that).
Also Kudos to Disney, that's fabulous customer service to refund a deposit out of good will, but few holiday / tour companies can afford to do that.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

You may also have an option through travel insurance if you have a Covid comprehensive policy

Well that's another issue, I took a specific policy out to cover the holiday, but I have yet to find the documents again, also I can't remember whether it was a specific policy for that holiday or whether it was just a general one, also the dates moved & I suspect I didn't inform them so likely it's no tinsured.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I'll be clear, this isn't an outright defence of TUI (I no longer have a dog in that fight), but I did used to work for TUI at head office and I'd often be present on board meetings so I understand how they work and I can at least give you a bit of an insight. First, they're operating on very different levels of capital to Disney, so we're not quite comparing apples with apples here. A behemoth of a company the size of Disney is better able to absorb shocks in the market somewhat better than TUI UK+I can. It's a different tactic that Disney have: Refund and just hope the buyer comes back - Most will, some won't, so it's not without risks although of course it's admirable if you can afford to do it.

And then I'm not sure what Disney's insurance situation is, but for UK tour operators it's a hard, hard area; I'd often speak to UK Government on behalf of TUI during various smaller crises, and one thing the MD always said to me prior to meetings with FCO and DfT was that where a destination was risky or borderline, we might as well push for a change in FCO travel advice to "do not travel", because anything short of that doesn't help the tour operator. It's at that exact point (a UK travel advice change) that the company's insurance kicks in, but lacking that change, then the tour company ends up suffering really badly if it starts to do refunds. I remember when various "ripples" in the market happened, attacks in Sharm el Sheikh and Tunisia... TUI had a lot of requests, (thousands) to cancel holidays to roughly similar destinations, so the likes of Turkey, Morocco etc; I remember the MD saying that if we simply refunded everyone out of "good will" we'd also simply be bankrupt in days. The tactic was (and is) to sit it out, and try to offer to move those bookings to some point in the future when it becomes clear that's necessary.

TUI can and do refund customers, but it's not the preferred thing when FCO advice still allows travel or if travel may / should be possible on the booking date. And as you recognise, a deposit is a deposit, so TUI and most other companies of that size will generally keep the deposit if a customer decides they want a refund when there's still the possibility of moving the dates. I've seen Customer Service at TUI do refunds of deposits before, but they'll be on an individual basis (for example family bereavement or similar, not something like a wider crisis that will go away to some degree at some point).

If there's any moral in the story here it's to sit and wait until the tour operator cancels you, (and I see you're doing that).
Also Kudos to Disney, that's fabulous customer service to refund a deposit out of good will, but few holiday / tour companies can afford to do that.

Very good assessment, well more than that, but it's exactly what I figured it would be, Disney has huge deep pockets, TUI not so much so, although I suspect both the Chairman & the MD got their bonuses last year.

 

[Darius_Jedburgh]

TUI work on the smallest of margins to keep costs down. Why keep costs down because everybody wants the cheapest deal. No thought of what will happen when problems occur. It's an ostrich head in the sand situation whereby everybody trusts to blind faith that nothing will go wrong.

TUI and other similar companies work on volumes to give profitability. Pile it high, sell it cheap. Once you got customers hooked then comes the time to sell all the extras which make serious money for them.

In many ways you get what you pay for. I hope OP has insurance that will cover his losses and that he didn't buy the cheapest available just so he could say he was covered.