Different frame materials

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Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
And to grow a green spanner in the works - I believe it takes much more energy to extract and process aluminium ore than iron ore...

Not sure about carbon - I suppose you might say flippantly that you were locking up carbon in the frame, but as far as I know, the fibre/resin mix can't be recycled like steel can...

I think I definitely own two steel bikes and one alu, and to be honest, I'm not sure about my winter hack:blush:, I think it must be steel...

And I own one piece of carbon fibre - a suspension 'spring' I watched Mike Burrows make in a demo. Not fitted to a bike, it's just an ornament...
 

yorkshiregoth

Master of all he surveys
Location
Heathrow
Don't Pinarello make a magnesium framed bike?
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Don't forget the stainless 953 steel - light and very strong, and probably very long lasting.

My best steel machine is Columbus SLX - super butted cro-mo with spirals inside tubes at the bottom bracket area for increased strength (for those that didn't know) - that frame is 15 years old. So long as you look after the paint, ensure it get's a coat of waxoil when you buy it, then steel will outlast most materials. This 953 stuff looks fab - this may well be the material of my next machine.

Don't dismiss a good steel frame. The only problem with a custom steel frame, it will probably cost more than a cheap carbon. My SLX was about £450 for the frame only - 15 years ago, similar quality hand built ones now sell for £800-£1000 - frightening cos you can get a full carbon/ultegra bike for that.
 

peejay78

Well-Known Member
i have a condor acciaio with dedacciai 16.5 tubing. it's ridiculously light and fast for a steel bike. the welds are invisible and it handles beautifully.

i love it.
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
I did something similar to my steel framed Dawes Shadow, the difference is the my Dawes must have been about 20 years old (it was second hand when I bought it and I rode it daily for nearly 10 years).
 

Blue

Legendary Member
Location
N Ireland
Keith Oates said:
Monty Dog has given a very good discription that I could not improve on, except to say for me the carbon bikes are very comfortable and I thoroughly enjoy riding them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been riding my carbon frame since April but took my Alu bike out today as I've changed the 53T ring for a 49T and wanted to see how it felt. I liked the gearing, but the roads seemed to have deteriorated markedly overnight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think I'll stick a 49T ring on the carbon frame and leave the Alu for the grime of winter. Carbon is soooooooooooooooo much nicer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Paul_Smith SRCC

www.plsmith.co.uk
Location
Surrey UK
I have posted this before that you may find useful.

You do of course find many different versions of each type of frame material but here are some very general guidelines that I have tried to put across in a plain and simple manner, they are my opinions based on 26 years as a club cyclist and 20 years as a specialist cycle retailer:

Comparison of frame materials

Aluminium Alloy: Often simply referred to as ‘Alloy’ Light, cheap, reasonably robust although not as comfortable when compared to the others, which is why most will have carbon forks. Alloy supposedly has the most performance drop off, which in fairness only really effects a racing cyclist where a few percent reduction in performance can make the difference (especially in their heads) of winning or coming second, in reality that applies more to the older lighter frames when Pro’ riders used extremely light versions (now most pro teams use Carbon), the modern budget frames use a heavier, more robust alloy and are of course aimed at a different style of riding. They are now the most common option in the mid range and upwards frame sets, fairly robust, as they will normally dent as apposed to crack. Normally the price dictates a purchase of a frame built in alloy, that does not mean that you will not be satisfied, you will see quite a few older frames still being ridden by club cyclists who find them perfectly adequate, plus many don’t have any complaints re’ comfort or performance drop off. Although most refer to these frames in general terms as ‘alloy’ if we are being pedantic then strictly speaking this is wrong, as steel is an alloy of carbon and iron, titanium is normally aluminum and vanadium, for example Airborne (now Van Nicholas ) use mainly 3% Aluminium, 2.5% Vanadium and as such called Ti 3-2.5 in most of their models.

Carbon Comfortable, very light, efficient at transferring energy into propulsion as the material does not flex as much as other materials. Although strong they can be delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon will often crack, a friend of mine had a Colnago Carbon C40 that he had just finished cleaning in the garden, he stepped back to admire his pride and joy, just out of reach it caught a gust of wind, fell over, caught the chain stay on the rockery and cracked. As such not normally the choice for audax/touring bikes where robustness may be preferred. Most common rider is either a racing cyclist or someone who still likes to ride a racing bike down the cafe on a sunny Sunday morning, especially when you are feeling a little bit frisky in the speed department (as I get older this happens less, normally one week in May and one in August, except of course when I have a tail wind), plus it can be rather pleasing to sit with your mates remembering how good you once was and how super your new bike is; no harm in that, it's what cycling is all about

Steel: Comfortable, very durable (if built correctly) with low performance drop off with age. These days only really used by club cyclist when the frame is built by a craftsmen, you are really paying for the workman ship. Many cyclist like to know who built their bike, they like the fact that they are having something built often to their own specification, you can personalise your frame with your own braze on items, light bosses, extra bottle bosses etc, you can even chose your own colour. In the past all top quality frames were purchased this way, as it was how you got exactly what you wanted, both in quality and especially frame size. The old diamond shape frame being less adaptable interms of variations in riding position than the modern sloping top tube frames; even Lance Armstrong uses an off the peg frame size. Although I fall into this category, as in uses as steel frame, not Lance Armstrong, I have to admit that modern off the peg frames are now so good both interms of production quality and the flexibility that the modern geometry gives you to achieve the perfect riding position, that the necessity to have a bike made to measure is less of an issue; but I still like them, I have some that are twenty years old and still going strong. Normally purchased by traditional types who still relate to when this was the way things were and if it was good enough then well......Ok Ok, I admit riders like me and even.

Titanium: Becoming more popular, virtually no performance drop as they don’t even rust, comfortable, light, yet robust. Performance wise not quite as responsive as carbon or alloy (alloy when new that is), although really it is that not far off, some pro riders now even use Titanium like Magnus Baksted a former Paris Roubaix winner, especially in races where comfort can become an issue, for example over the cobbles of the Paris Roubaix, as riders are bashed about so much it can lead to fatigue. The down side is that Titanium is very hard to work/build with; so most don't! On the upside because of this the workman ship simply has to be of top quality and it shows, Titanium frames do look and are very well made. Most common used when someone wants a fast, responsive, light comfortable (ideal for longer day rides/audax), yet robust bike and of course where price is not so much of an issue.

Most titanium manufacturers use the 3AL 2.5V grade, the 6/4 grade is usually only used for pure race bikes, it is also as a finished frame more expensive, as the raw material is more difficult to both make into tubes and then to build. Many also believe the 3AL 2.5V grade is more suitable, especially for Audax frames where riders are not looking for something quite as stiff as a full on race bike.

Comparison of fork materials

As for forks nearly all the quality road frames made in the materials above will now use Carbon, with the possible exception of the quality steel Audax/touring frames that will still often be specified with steel forks. As for the other frame materials listed above, alloy frames will seldom use alloy forks as this will give a harsh ride. Titanium frames will not often use Titanium forks as they can vibrate when brake is applied, so carbon again is the norm'. Of course when the main frame is carbon it follows that the forks will be as well.

In all cases where carbon forks are used I would recommend a recognised manufacturer, plus if you do have a crash resulting in a fairly substantial impact then I would always recommend new forks; steel will bend to show the impact, carbon will not.

Paul Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

Some links you may find useful
www.vannicholas.com/ResLib/WbmTitanium.aspx
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html
http://www.caree.org/bike101framematerials.htm

banjoblues said:
Ok, so reading people's posts I think I now understand that steel is heavier than aluminium which is heavier than carbon which is slightly heavier than air. But, there are suggestions that there are other attributes to the materials which make each preferable in different situations. Can somebody explain please? And the same for forks?
 

Christopher

Über Member
There are also more exotic materials that have been tried but haven't been taken up: beryllium (abundant, light, very stiff, poisonous, unbeliveably expensive to use in a frame), metal matricies (I guess they don't offer any real advantage over everything else) and magnesium (ditto)
 

Paul_Smith SRCC

www.plsmith.co.uk
Location
Surrey UK
Kirk Precision used magnesium , distribued by Dawes if I recall

Paul Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

Frustruck said:
There are also more exotic materials that have been tried but haven't been taken up: beryllium (abundant, light, very stiff, poisonous, unbeliveably expensive to use in a frame), metal matricies (I guess they don't offer any real advantage over everything else) and magnesium (ditto)
 

Christopher

Über Member
Pinarello Dogma used magnesium also. I wonder how it rides?

I saw a Kirk Pricision at Richmond Park this year. It hadn't yet snapped in two as I hear they tend to. Looked very heavy. Andy Gates off C+ had a Kirk, which snapped...
 

spesh

Well-Known Member
Frustruck said:
There are also more exotic materials that have been tried but haven't been taken up: beryllium (abundant, light, very stiff, poisonous, unbeliveably expensive to use in a frame), metal matricies (I guess they don't offer any real advantage over everything else) and magnesium (ditto)

Metal matrix composites did have a performance advantage over typical aluminium alloys, but the material was virtually impossible to work or weld. IIRC, only Specialized - working with Duralcan - managed to work out how to make butted tubes and weld them together, resulting in the Stumpjumper M2 and Allez M2 framesets. They used their M2 MMC to make their top-end frames for about 8-9 years, replacing it with their M4 proprietary aluminium alloy in 1999.
 
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