BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Tell that to all the parents and kids cycling in the Netherlands, oh and before you say it, cycling in the Netherlands is only a little safer than cycling in the UK, both are very safe overall.
do hi viz vests/jackets work ?
- Thread starter Iainj837
- Start date
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wafflycat
New Member
- Location
- middle of Norfolk
Having cycled in various European countries, one of the things that stuck me as the difference between 'over here' and 'over there' is the attitude to cycling by those who are cycling and those who are not. Very different to here. 'Over there' cycling is something that is seen as *normal* You don't have to wear special clothing, a special hat, special colours. It's all just part of everyday living, a way to get from A to B (without being seen as a loony fringe), a way to have fun, to spend a Sunday, to get to work, to do the shopping, for kids to play... all without special clothes, or a special hat. And somehow I don't think that 'Over there' they love their kids any less than we do 'over here'. Yet there is a distinct difference in attitude.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
botchjob said:
Yes on the road. Can you back that up with stats? No, didn't think so.
Magic Foam Hats (TM).
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
p.s. if it really was a thousand times more dangerous to cycle in Hackney, don't you think you'd be an extremely irresponsible parent to have your kids on bikes at all?
The reality is that the benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks, and it's not particularly dangerous at all in the UK. So I don't really think you're irresponsible, but I do think you should place less value in the safety of magic foam hats, and more in teaching your kids good cycling and roadcraft.
The reality is that the benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks, and it's not particularly dangerous at all in the UK. So I don't really think you're irresponsible, but I do think you should place less value in the safety of magic foam hats, and more in teaching your kids good cycling and roadcraft.
botchjob said:
Whenever I contemplate whether I should wear my helmet this article always pops into mind:
http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/Ballantine/helmets.html
Origamist said:
Wow, I would have never thought that over 3.5 x's cyclisted killed in the Netherlands over the UK, that's quite significant.
But we must remember that there are Lies, Dam Lies and Statistics. These statistics tell us how many cyclists died over number of Km cycled. What they don't say is where those miles where cycled, how the cyclists died and how many vehicle overtakes per km each cyclist endures, I could go on but I think you get the picture. Nevertheless there does appear to be quite a difference.
Origamist said:
Using these figures, what is interesting is that in the Netherlands over 100 million km 14 where seriously injured and 1.1 killed, where as the UK 60 injured and 3.6 killed. So your chances on being in a series accident are greater in the UK. However, once in a serious accident your chances of dying are greatier in the Netherlands (7.8%) over the UK (6%)!
Also, what does serious accident mean?
Origamist
Legendary Member
Welcome, Silverbow to the "wonderful" world of pan-European accident stats...
There are always problems comparing injury statistics across different countries because of differences in definitions and methodologies of data collection. The headline figures only present the tip of the statistical iceberg...
Statistics are something I enjoy(?) pulling apart, it was one of my favorite things on my MBA. I always chuckle when I read a taboild twisting findings or pulling a subset of data to prove a point.
However, I must say I'm sure that cyclists in the Netherlands are more protected than they are here - although that is just a hunch. Thanks for posting them though, I think they illustrate the point well.
When I've been to Copenhagen I've always been impressed by the facilities and consideration given to cyclists, I really wish it was like that here.
Nevertheless, I say wear that hi-viz jacket and stay alert.
However, I must say I'm sure that cyclists in the Netherlands are more protected than they are here - although that is just a hunch. Thanks for posting them though, I think they illustrate the point well.
When I've been to Copenhagen I've always been impressed by the facilities and consideration given to cyclists, I really wish it was like that here.
Nevertheless, I say wear that hi-viz jacket and stay alert.
Origamist
Legendary Member
Gives you some idea of the number of cyclists in Copenhagen:
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/12/copenhagen-bike-rush-hour.html
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2007/12/copenhagen-bike-rush-hour.html
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
I think by far the biggest factor is the sheer number of Dutch cyclists. That's also what's likely to make London a much safer place to ride than most of the UK.
