Do the emergency services over react sometimes?

[Arch]

Yesterday, I was pulling away from a green light to turn right onto Fulford Road, and as I was getting across the first lane, I heard the first sound of a siren of to my right, so I hammered the pace a bit to sprint across and out of the way. Three drivers behind me followed anyway, apparently oblivious to the police car coming - I heard the dirver using his horn on top of the siren a fair bit. But that's not my point (just a dig at dopey drivers).

Anyway, as I rode into town along Fulford Road, I saw another police car, the fire service landrover towing the boat, two full size fire engines, an ambulance and another police car, all hammering along in the same direction, so I assumed something big must be happening, on the river.

Looks like it was this:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8636159.Three_people_rescued_in_York_river_drama/?ref=mr

Three people, pulled from the Ouse when a canoe capsised at the Naburn weir. Three people, one canoe. Were TWO fire engines really necessary? I imagine the landrover carries a pretty good selection of rescue equipment, but maybe you'd want one engine with long ladders etc. Not only that, but fire crews from Tadcaster apparently also attended. Knowing the distance from Tadcaster to Naburn, I can't imagine the Taddie bunch got there until it was all over.

Obviously, you want enough people to help, and I suppose intial reports might be confused, but it seems like a bit of an over reaction. Apart from the fuel used, and the fact that both those engines were then not at base, and potentially further away from something over the other side of town, the more vehicles you have speeding along the more chance you have of accidents - witness the drivers who followed me out unaware into the way of that police car. Also, the vehicles going my way that pulled into the bus/cycle lane I was in away from the oncoming vehicles, probably without looking all that hard in their mirrors - fortunately I was expecting it, and pretty much pulled up until it was all clear.

Is anyone expert on this sort of thing, and could explain?

(On an unrelated note, I pulled up at the next set of lights, in the ASL, behind a German lady on a bike, who turned to look at me, and say how cool the trike was. At which point the car at the head of the queue, which had been stationary and then creeping forward, set off. Clean through a red light. Not an early amber, resolutely red.)

 

[addictfreak]

Arch

Obviously I dont know the circumstances of this particular incident, nor am I fully conversant with Yorkshire FRS proceedures. But in normal circumstances the nearest Fire appliance will be mobilised. In addition crews with specialist training in this type of rescue will also attend (swift water rescue teams). Not all Firefighters are trained in SWR, but all should have water awareness training.

The first appliance would normally go to point where the casualty was last seen, other appliances will proceed downstream. In addition the SWRT will launch there boat. Depending on the size of the river/lake etc you may also need to cover both banks.

As you say the Emergency Services can only act intially on the information they receive from 999 callers, I can assure you that is not always accurate as the person calling may not be familiar with the area.

There also has to be safe systems of work put into place, which may involve other appliances. These safe systems are there to assist in the rescue of members of the public as well as ensure the safety of emergency service personnel.

 

[Archie_tect]

Worst offenders are the police cars all responding to calls. Counted five police cars attending a broken down lorry on an A1 slip road, 2 motorway BMW estates closing off the off and on slip roads, one Astra directing traffic on the roundabout, one small [fiesta?] behind the lorry and one Volvo V70 200 yards back along the A1 diverting traffic.

The lorry was on the hard shoulder with a blown tyre.

Must have been a slow incident day. Lorry wasn't even a tanker, just a flat bed artic with an empty trailer.

 

[addictfreak]

Worst offenders are the police cars all responding to calls. Counted five police cars attending a broken down lorry on an A1 slip road, 2 motorway BMW estates closing off the off and on slip roads, one Astra directing traffic on the roundabout, one small [fiesta?] behind the lorry and one Volvo V70 200 yards back along the A1 diverting traffic.

The lorry was on the hard shoulder with a blown tyre.

Must have been a slow incident day. Lorry wasn't even a tanker, just a flat bed artic with an empty trailer.

If you had ever seen the aftermath of an RTC where a car has run into the back of a lorry on the hard shoulder, you may have a different opinion.

 

[Arch]

Arch

Obviously I dont know the circumstances of this particular incident, nor am I fully conversant with Yorkshire FRS proceedures. But in normal circumstances the nearest Fire appliance will be mobilised. In addition crews with specialist training in this type of rescue will also attend (swift water rescue teams). Not all Firefighters are trained in SWR, but all should have water awareness training.

The first appliance would normally go to point where the casualty was last seen, other appliances will proceed downstream. In addition the SWRT will launch there boat. Depending on the size of the river/lake etc you may also need to cover both banks.

As you say the Emergency Services can only act intially on the information they receive from 999 callers, I can assure you that is not always accurate as the person calling may not be familiar with the area.

There also has to be safe systems of work put into place, which may involve other appliances. These safe systems are there to assist in the rescue of members of the public as well as ensure the safety of emergency service personnel.

Thanks for that - I do understand that information may be garbled, and so on, and I guess extraneous vehicles can be stood down quickly when they reach the site of the incident. I suppose the Tadcaster crews referred to might have been sent to cover downstream, although they are still a fair way from the Ouse at any point, on narrow contry roads.

Presumably when you say other appliances might cover downstream, you mean they have to use the roads and wait at the next bridge? You can't get a fire engine down the rural banks of the Ouse, and there are some fair stretches with no road anywhere close...

I'm not dissing the emergency services, don't get me wrong. I know if it was me, I'd want help quickly. I just wondered about the number and suitability of the vehicles.

 

[sheddy]

As no one is now allowed in the water, the fire engines were required to first drain the river.......

 

[surfgurl]

I live in a seaside town with notorious mudflats exposed at low tide. It's not safe to go near the water other than 2 hourseither side of high tide. I know that as a local but the many thousands of tourists don't and often don't appear to take heed of the many warning signs. Consequently there are many call outs during the year. They send all emergency services and the lifeboat and hover craft service. It may seem over kill, but they save lives by having everything to hand. It also means the crews get plenty of practice.

 

[CanucksTraveller]

I heard the dirver using his horn on top of the siren a fair bit.

The siren is operated by the horn.
When you're dispatched to a scene, you press a single "999" button on the emergency signal control panel and it primes the siren and switches various lights on.
To start the siren going, you then press your horn. To change the sound or type, you press the horn again. To silence the siren, you press the horn twice. This is why you often hear the standard horn on a vehicle being driven on a siren.

The "overreaction" thing has been addressed I feel, but I'll add one thing: Sometimes we can look mob handed, but there is always a reason.
In my organisation (London Ambulance Service), in serious cases (chest pain, difficulty in breathing, collapse etc) we often send a FRU (Fast Response Unit) and also back it up with a truck. The FRU should get there quicker and the staff can then get to work on the patient, and obviously the truck is needed to transport the patient.
Sometimes 3 ambulances might arrive at one scene, purely because they were all within a similar distance and all got tasked by the computer as being appropriate. It's then a bit of a race as to who gets there first. That may sound a little daft but with something like cardiac arrest, 1 minute is the difference between life and death. Or at the very least, life and severely disabled life.

 

[addictfreak]

As no one is now allowed in the water, the fire engines were required to first drain the river.......

'Swimming' rescues should only be attempted by those with the correct training. Which is where the SWRT come into it. I have experienced incidents where FFs have entered the water, (non SWRT trained), with a successful outcome. There have been instances around the country where personnel have faced disciplinary action for doing so!

Most Fire Engines will only carry limited equipment for water rescues, i.e Floating lines, throwing lines and hopefully life jackets ,maybe inflatable hose.


This tragic incident and the sebsequent improvement notice had a big effect on water rescues by FRS:


http://www.fbu.org.uk/newspress/ffmag/2004/1204/1204hs.pdf

 

[Fnaar]

...as reported by Nina Nannar

(actually probably only works with old-fashioned sirens

)

 

[addictfreak]

Thanks for that - I do understand that information may be garbled, and so on, and I guess extraneous vehicles can be stood down quickly when they reach the site of the incident. I suppose the Tadcaster crews referred to might have been sent to cover downstream, although they are still a fair way from the Ouse at any point, on narrow contry roads.

Presumably when you say other appliances might cover downstream, you mean they have to use the roads and wait at the next bridge? You can't get a fire engine down the rural banks of the Ouse, and there are some fair stretches with no road anywhere close...

I'm not dissing the emergency services, don't get me wrong. I know if it was me, I'd want help quickly. I just wondered about the number and suitability of the vehicles.

Tadcaster may be the base of the SWRT.

The idea of going downstream, is so you can get personnel done onto the bank with throwing lines or maybe to get a boom across the river (if possible).

If should have also mentioned that a crew should also be sent upstream, this is to act as spotters uusually at times of flood when water is fast flowing and may carry large debris. They would then warn the downstream crews.

 

[Arch]

The siren is operated by the horn.
When you're dispatched to a scene, you press a single "999" button on the emergency signal control panel and it primes the siren and switches various lights on.
To start the siren going, you then press your horn. To change the sound or type, you press the horn again. To silence the siren, you press the horn twice. This is why you often hear the standard horn on a vehicle being driven on a siren.

Ok, didn't really know that. But I'm fairly sure the driver was in some way emphasising his presence, since the drivers who followed me out really didn't seem to be aware of the siren he was using as he came along the road - I often notice that I'm very quickly aware of a siren, and more importantly, where it's coming from, when I'm on the bike, whereas drivers are coccoooned in their nice insulated boxes and only aware at the last minute.

Surgurl, good point about getting useful training, I hadn't really thought of that. Although if people are daft enough to ignore warnings about mudflats, they probably ought to just be left there....

 

[newb]

if I recall correcty most police cars now change the tones of the klaxons by using the steering wheel horn, this may be why you thought he was using the horn all the time.

I agree with people above, you cant be to careful hence the response.

 

[Arch]

Tadcaster may be the base of the SWRT.

Pardon my ignorance, but SWRT?

I've googled but I guess you don't mean Saffron Waldon Round Table or Subaru World Rally Team....

 

[Arch]

[QUOTE 1244627"]
Addictfreak mentioned Swift Water Rescue Teams.
[/quote]

Sorry, missed the reference.

You learn something every day, eh?