Do we really think most motorist are good and courteous?

[MrHappyCyclist]

Th thing I find interesting about these replies is the relationship between the different perceptions and the locations. It's a small sample, and completely unscientific, but I get the impression that the more positive responses come from places where (a) there are a lot more bicycles on the road, and (b) there has been/is some intervention to attempt to improve the situation.

The most obvious place is London in this respect. In Gaz's videos, I see tens or maybe hundreds of other cyclists, quite a few "Boris bikes", and loads of blue paint on the roads. I am aware of TfL, Roadsafe, LCC, and Cycle Superhighways. On my commute, I am seeing 5 or 6 other cyclists in 12.5 miles, little or no public provision of anything, and a number of totally inadequate, faded dashed white lines and ASLs. I am not aware of any TfGreaterManchester, we have no Roadsafe; there is a GMCC but it's not well known (but I admit I haven't done anything about it myself).

So, it seems that there is hope for us, if we can follow the example of London. Now, who is the Mayor of Manchester? Can't remember. Nor the mayor of Salford, nor Trafford, nor Stockport, nor Oldham, ... can't even remember the name of Bolton's Mayor, and I live here! Hm.

 

[al78]

So, it seems that there is hope for us, if we can follow the example of London. Now, who is the Mayor of Manchester? Can't remember. Nor the mayor of Salford, nor Trafford, nor Stockport, nor Oldham, ... can't even remember the name of Bolton's Mayor, and I live here! Hm.

That will be my father from next May.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

That will be my father from next May.

Sounds like an opportunity!

 

[pshore]

That will be my father from next May.

The inaugral speech: ... and let me warmly introduce, Mayor 78 ....

 

[growingvegetables]

Drivers themselves don't think they're good and courteous.




Found by chance - " A poll of 3,000 motorists by Thrifty Car & Van Rental reveals a staggering eight out of ten (85%) drivers admit to gambling amber lights in an attempt to race through the traffic.

Meanwhile, nearly four out of ten (38%) say they rarely stop if the lights are on amber. Sixteen per cent (16%) even confessed that amber is like a green light to them.

Worryingly more than one in ten (13%) motorists has had an accident or near miss as a result of belting through an amber signal. Half (50%) have been shouted at by their passenger and more than a quarter (26%) have been sworn or beeped at by other drivers. "

No surprises there, then.

 

[gaz]

Drivers themselves don't think they're good and courteous.




Found by chance - " A poll of 3,000 motorists by Thrifty Car & Van Rental reveals a staggering eight out of ten (85%) drivers admit to gambling amber lights in an attempt to race through the traffic.

Meanwhile, nearly four out of ten (38%) say they rarely stop if the lights are on amber. Sixteen per cent (16%) even confessed that amber is like a green light to them.

Worryingly more than one in ten (13%) motorists has had an accident or near miss as a result of belting through an amber signal. Half (50%) have been shouted at by their passenger and more than a quarter (26%) have been sworn or beeped at by other drivers. "

No surprises there, then.

And what % of them lied in all three of those?

 

[growingvegetables]

Drivers? Lying? {shock}

Surely not ... they wouldn't really do such a dastardly thing, would they?

 

[summerdays]

I would phrase it more like most people are not out to intentionally harm you.

I see it as shades of grey rather than a black and white issue.
If we take overtaking on a rural road as an example:

• There are a minority of drivers that cross the white line entirely to overtake. I suspect they are cyclists due to the great care they take.
• A lot of drivers can be coaxed into overtaking in the opposite lane with a bit of Cycle-Crafting. They are taking care around others.
• Most drivers pass with enough room but a bit more would be safer I fell off. These are the sheep, copying the overtaking style of the majority. They think they are safe around others but I would disagree.
• Some pass too close at too high a speed. They are not thinking about safety of others but are still not out to intentionally harm us. I am guessing these people never walk or cycle anywhere and have no idea how anti-social and dangerous they are.
• Some go out of their way to teach you a lesson even on a empty road. They are rare enough - I seem to get them about once every 1000km of cycling.

By far, the largest group are the sheep.

We were on holiday in South Hams in Devon, narrow windy roads with lots of places where two cars couldn't pass each other. When we were behind a cyclist we waited until there was a sensible place to pass and then passing them with lots of room. I looked back (as a passenger) and watched the following cars (usually had a couple whilst waiting for a suitable passing place) overtake the cyclist and they also seemed to give the cyclist plenty of room. I was watching after remembering a remark that someone had made on here about how if the first car overtook and gave plenty of space that the others tended to follow (sheep).

I think being a cyclist does make you more aware of the problems that a cyclist can face.

Th thing I find interesting about these replies is the relationship between the different perceptions and the locations. It's a small sample, and completely unscientific, but I get the impression that the more positive responses come from places where (a) there are a lot more bicycles on the road, and (b) there has been/is some intervention to attempt to improve the situation.

I think that is very true - just because they are used to seeing bikes on the road, possibly more likely to know someone who cycles. My experiences locally would be that a reasonable number are nice and courteous with good passes and letting you out of side roads etc. There are a reasonable number of middling sheep, and at the bottom are the inconsiderate and down right rude ones ... often on their mobile phone.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

To me, and I acknowledge it is a highly personal and idiosyncratic view, most drivers, including myself, are neither good nor courteous, most of the time because they are driving automatically, semi-consciously.

To be a good driver, by my lights, means you drive actively, alertly and respond appropriately to then changing environment around you. You consciously avoid and manage risks rather than plough on through (I exaggerate). You drive to a system and have probably taken extra training beyond merely passing the test which is a meagre minimum. I do not consider myself to be a good driver, merely an adequate one, and the bar is set pretty low.

To me a courteous driver is one who actively considers the needs of other road users especially those more vulnerable than themselves not someone who simply manages to avoid conflicting with another road user by default.

So by those criteria I do not consider most drivers to be either good or courteous. They are good enough and generally not discourteous though.

 

[mickle]

I'm a super courteous driver around cyclists and peds and a total nob when it comes to other motor vehicles. My very prominent 'My other car is a bicycle' communicates my allegiance.

 

[Bad Company]

There are still far more good drivers than bad ones. Also most on this forum also drive cars.

I did have a bit of row with a van driver a few weeks ago. He was annoyed that Mrs BC and I were riding 2 abreast. I wouldn't mind but we had moved into single file when we heard him coming.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

There are still far more good drivers than bad ones. Also most on this forum also drive cars.

As we've already discussed, I think it depends on your definitions. Taking passing distance, for example, I think a good driver is one who gives a cyclist "as much space as you would give a car" when overtaking (i.e. at least about 8 feet from the kerb if it is a clear road), as recommended in the Highway Code, and would wait a good distance behind until that were possible. I think a bad driver is someone who passes me with less than 1 metre of space between my elbow and their door mirror. The former are much rarer than the latter in my experience. All the rest are just mediocre.