Does people commuting on a cycle really reduce traffic?

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Norm

Guest
Wrong place for helmet debates. :biggrin: But, if you do want to know whether helmets are worthwhile, there is a whole section of CycleChat for that sort of discussion. :thumbsup:

Take care with Cyclecraft. It's a useful guide but that's all it is. It doesn't tell you how to act on every inch of every stretch of tarmac, it just suggests possibilities and makes you aware and awake to the dangers, particularly the danger of riding in the gutter or riding as if you weren't meant to be on the road. It helps you to become assertive but only experience will tell you what bits to use and when. Franklin, in writing Cyclecraft, has done what I wouldn't and has tried to tell people where to ride but, being a book, it has to be generalising and it cannot decipher situations for you. TBH, I found it a little too prescriptive, a little too rigid.

For instance, I now default to the right side of a queue of stationary traffic, preferring to go between the lanes rather than between the cars and the pavement. However, there's also plenty of places and situations where I will ride to the left, but I wouldn't want to start listing them as they relate to the roads that I know with very specific variations depending on road widths, junctions, schools, markings etc. I wouldn't even want to say what speed the cars reach before I'll stop overtaking them and fall into the line because a lot of that depends on looking 100m+ up the queue and seeing what is happening there.

Another for instance, the most dangerous situation I've witnessed in the past 3 years was a cyclist who wanted to turn right at a roundabout who rode down the white line between the two lanes, and got passed on both sides at the same time. Had they"taken the lane" in either the right or the left lane, they would have only had a danger on one side or the other, by riding down the white line, they left themselves vulnerable to idiots on both sides.

A lot of this is very precious to me at the moment, as my son has recently started commuting 3.5 miles into town on a bike. He has over 1 mile of NSL, about the same of completely quiet road (they diverted the main road and left the old road blocked off as a cycle lane), and passes 3 office buildings (very busy entrances in the mornings), 2 junctions, 3 roundabouts, a race course (which has weekly evening meets) and numerous houses on the way. Trying to gauge his ability and confidence and match that with advising him where to ride has occupied much of my life for the past few months.
 
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DonnyDarko

New Member
Thanks Norm.

I think that's what I'm feeling with both myself and the other half at the moment.

Perhaps a bit too protective but you just can't help it I guess. I'm sure all will come with time and / or experience for both me the Mrs and your son.

Worth asking though hey?

Does your lad ask you anything or do you find you're just trying to advise him a lot without him instigating it?

I think I'm coming on a bit too protective with my Mrs. But I'd bloody regret it if I didn't and she broke her leg or worse. So sod it. She's being told. She understand I think but we haven't even got the bikes yet and I'm banging on to her about it. Bit of a catch 22 perhaps.
 

Norm

Guest
My son does ask, but not always directly. He'll ask to go for a ride and then just follow me, so I find myself running a commentary to say what I'm considering, what I'm looking at and for, where the dangers might be and how to keep away from them. I think he enjoys learning through osmosis but I don't like him following me blindly because I believe that, without understanding when it's not appropriate, there is a lot of danger in telling someone to ride in primary or to overtake cars on the right.

Another example, he was always very nervous of cars left-hooking him when he passed a junction or a driveway, so he was looking over his shoulder a lot. I pointed out that a left hook from a car would push you onto the pavement or into the empty side road so, whilst it was dangerous, it wasn't the biggest danger. On the other hand, a car coming out of the junction which just stuck its nose too far into the traffic would push a gutter-hugger straight off their bike and onto the tarmac on the main carriageway. Now he is still conscious of the cars approaching from behind but he is more alert for cars approaching from side streets.

He (and I think most people) doesn't mind being told what to do as long as he is told why. If I had just said "don't look behind so much", it wouldn't have made much sense so he wouldn't have changed much. Because I said "look down the side roads as well", along with the relative consequences of the two potential impacts, he has changed the way he rides. And I will be very hacked off with myself if he ever gets left-hooked. :biggrin:

Another thing that has helped is that he's just started getting lifts from me on the motorbike. With him on board, I try to ride that like I cycle and I again do the commentary "look down that side road, move out to see round this bend, don't overtake there as that car will pull out etc".

There's a set of signs going into the Intech in Winchester which says something along the lines of:
I hear, I forget
I see, I remember
I do, I understand

It is all very catch-22, though. How does anyone know when another has the confidence to do something without them just bloody doing it.
 
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DonnyDarko

New Member
Touché.

Not sure she'd listen as much as your lad (or my daughter would to me) listens to you, as it's the Mrs after all. But I'll try to explain what I'm / we're doing and why then.

Sounds like it has been well worth you having experience on a motorbike on the road then, and I have a bit of that. Albeit without a passenger. As soon as I could get in a car I did to be fair so only did 2 years on the CBT from my 16th birthday to my 18th. Always intended on getting a license for bikes but the bike was sold, the CBT ran out, and then life happened. haha

Still yet to take the plunge again and perhaps this'll gear me on a bit. Got some good mates who ride bikes and I'd love the sunday haul they have I think.
 

Norm

Guest
I'm guessing that you are up near Stoke, Donny, with the references to the A500. There's some lovely bits to ride round there, you've got the Dales to one side and North Wales to the other (let's ignore the bits north and south :biggrin: )
 
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DonnyDarko

New Member
lmao - yeah I've given two map examples in another thread where we're on about cycle lanes near me (and my queries regarding them and my future commute route). But bang on mate.

I go north wales (mate took me a XC course with a cafe at the bottom - bang on! - want to go there again) but used to go hanchurch, cannock chase, those sorts of places. My mates got into downhill and we're quite competitive (I used to try follow him on my old XC bike a bit) and I'd like to join him again.

He's been going loads of places and has been showing me videos and whatnot. Loving it all. Hope I can get these bikes cheaper (thinking now I'll just get the bloody things either way) though so I can get back into it and get a bit fitter.

(edited some spelling - its getting late!)
 

Norm

Guest
Ooo, Cannock, I had a friend in Sutton Coldfield who used to spend all his spare time in Cannock Chase. I've never been, although I visit another friend just south of Telford so really should take my hard tail up next time. We're about 9 miles from Swinley Forest here, although I don't think it's the same scale as Cannock it's not too bad considering its proximity to the M25.
 
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DonnyDarko

New Member
You should get your arse up there it's good. Use to be in the Army Cadets years ago and there's a small base up there. Used to practise up there as cadets so did get to know the place a bit from that (on-foot) point of view. But going on a bike from a different entrance threw me completely. Can spend a good few weekends there and still find new trails to follow/create.

Swinley Forrest sounds a bit too far for me (us) though to be fair so I'm guessing Cannock is to you haha.
 
Touché.

Not sure she'd listen as much as your lad (or my daughter would to me) listens to you, as it's the Mrs after all. But I'll try to explain what I'm / we're doing and why then.

Based on what I've seen here I wouldn't try telling anyone what to do before you know yourself. Have a read of Cyclecraft and book yourselves in for some Bikeability training which is available locally. It would be infinitely better than your "make it up as I go" stuff you've posted here in the last day. Much of good cycling practice is counter-intuitive like staying out from the kerb to be safer so best gained by training rather than trial and error.
 

MrHappyCyclist

Riding the Devil's HIghway
Location
Bolton, England
Don't get a helmet cam. There's a 75% chance you'll turn into a self-righteous arse.

Well, HP has rather simplified the situation here. I am one of the people that he might call a "self-righteous arse", but there is actually a whole lot of ingredients in this. The story goes:

1. Start cycling to work, making it up as you go along, riding in the gutter, always sticking to cycle lanes, etc.
2. Get concerned about all of the left hooks, being cut up in pinch points, fed up of the punctures, etc.
3. Start reading about how to stop these problems; read Cyclecraft; start cycling properly.
4. Get into some altercations because you forgot to doff your cap to some ignorant motorists. Get some extremely close passes and get cut up at pinch points because you were "riding in the middle of the f*****g road".
5. Talk to some people about it and find that they don't believe you and think you are just being a self-righteous arse.
6. Experience one or two really scary incidents.
7. Get a camera.
8. Watch some of your footage and realise that in some cases there was something you could have done to improve the situation; learn, from experience, some subtleties that you can't get from reading Cyclecraft.
9. Get another camera for the rear.

Other possibilities are:

7a. Give up and get back in the car.
7b. Go back to riding in the gutter and doffing your cap.
7c. Just keep riding without a camera and hoping you're never in a your-word-against-theirs situation.

This is basically my own story. I know it sounds off-putting, but I think we should not come to this with rose-tinted glasses on. I commute 25 miles each day and it is very rare that I will go the whole round trip without encountering at least one driver doing something really stupid that directly affects me.

Having said that, I suspect (from other people's comments) that my route probably has more than its fair share of idiotic motorists, so you may well have a better experience. I also have found that the times when I have people put me in danger (rather than just revving their engines or or sounding their horns) tend to be the times when I fail to ride assertively because I am nervous or intimidated.

I also think that the Cyclecraft approach is much easier to adopt once you have become a reasonably strong cyclist. I still find I have far more problems if I'm cycling against a strong head-wind and can't accelerate as quickly or ride as fast, and "vehicular cycling" becomes much more difficult.
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
Nothing wrong with having a cam for use as evidence in that sort of incident. Plenty wrong with posting up daily videos of minor incidents and letting your journey to-and-from work dominate your life.
 

Jezston

Über Member
Location
London
Nothing wrong with having a cam for use as evidence in that sort of incident. Plenty wrong with posting up daily videos of minor incidents and letting your journey to-and-from work dominate your life.

And you are saying that's what 75% of us do?

I hear far more self righteous arseyness coming from people complaining about helmet camera users than I hear from camera users themselves.

Especially when you get stuff cross posted onto other sites and suddenly all these comments like "yeah I know that guy with the camera off a forum called 'cycle chat' - he's a total xxxx and I hate him". And yet they never have the balls to say anything here.

EDIT - not insinuting that's you by the way HP. Just tired of the whole 'helmet camera users are just looking for trouble' bull.
 
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