Dog control on off road cycleways

[Schneil]

Does anyone know what the law or guidance is here?
I was behind another cyclist, when we both nearly hit a dog that was off lead on the Fallowfield Loop cycleway in Manchester.
I didn't see it until the last minute as it ambled out in front of us, from a group of people stood opposite.

There was a difference of opinion between me and the dog owner.
I politely pointed out that the dog should be on a lead (there are signs stating "please keep dogs on leads", but they are not obvious). AFAIK a dog should be under control in a public place, so if I'd have hit it, it would have been the owner's fault.

The owner disagreed. and stated if I'd have hit her dog, I'd have been at fault as I was "going too fast".

In retrospect I probably was going a little fast for a dog, but I didn't see the thing until the last second. I was going slightly uphill so I definitely wasn't going above 20mph. Probably about 15mph.
I normally slow right down when there are young kids of dogs. However I had no warning that the thing would dart out.

Anyone know what the law says? Some of our canine friends can be a right nuisance on that stretch.

 

[lesley_x]

Do you not think 15mph or above on a shared path is too fast?

 

[Schneil]

How fast you should reasonably go depends on the situation. If the paths really busy I'll go slow. However there was no warning the dog would dash out, so even if I'd have been going 5-10mph, I'd still have had to have emergency stopped. It was the owner's attitude that got my back up.
There's an unwritten understanding between dog walkers and cyclists on that path. If I see a dog I'll slow and the owner will hold the dog and I'll go past with a "thanks".
The owner clearly sw us approach, as they moved over to the opposite side of the path, however she didn't have her dog in control, but felt the onus was totally on me.

 

[I like Skol]

It's a busy, shared use, path. Get a life and watch where you are going . People can be as unpredictable as animals and even when you think they have seen you coming they will step out unexpectedly. You are effectively riding on a pavement, while they are definitely NOT walking on a road, so the onus is on you to ride appropriately. Riding at 5-10mph is too fast to pass a group of people. Less than 5mph is probably more suitable. An emergency stop at less than 5mph is just a stop, without the drama!

I think you need to learn a lesson from this rather than getting on your high horse and asking about laws and guidance, common sense is all that is needed.

By the way, I am not absolving all dog owners, just as in all walks of life, it is a group that contains some right chumps!

 

[Profpointy]

Not unreasonable to let your dog wander about on a path, shared or otherwise. If it had been a toddler, should he have been on reins?

For the record, I've never owned a dog.

 

[Sara_H]

Does anyone know what the law or guidance is here?
I was behind another cyclist, when we both nearly hit a dog that was off lead on the Fallowfield Loop cycleway in Manchester.
I didn't see it until the last minute as it ambled out in front of us, from a group of people stood opposite.

There was a difference of opinion between me and the dog owner.
I politely pointed out that the dog should be on a lead (there are signs stating "please keep dogs on leads", but they are not obvious). AFAIK a dog should be under control in a public place, so if I'd have hit it, it would have been the owner's fault.

The owner disagreed. and stated if I'd have hit her dog, I'd have been at fault as I was "going too fast".

In retrospect I probably was going a little fast for a dog, but I didn't see the thing until the last second. I was going slightly uphill so I definitely wasn't going above 20mph. Probably about 15mph.
I normally slow right down when there are young kids of dogs. However I had no warning that the thing would dart out.

Anyone know what the law says? Some of our canine friends can be a right nuisance on that stretch.

I ride through the local park to work in the morning - usually loads of folks out walking their dogs. TBH I expect dogs to dash in front of my at any given moment and ride accordingly. You were probably going a bit too fast.

 

[Fab Foodie]

It's a busy, shared use, path. Get a life and watch where you are going . People can be as unpredictable as animals and even when you think they have seen you coming they will step out unexpectedly. You are effectively riding on a pavement, while they are definitely NOT walking on a road, so the onus is on you to ride appropriately. Riding at 5-10mph is too fast to pass a group of people. Less than 5mph is probably more suitable. An emergency stop at less than 5mph is just a stop, without the drama!

I think you need to learn a lesson from this!

Completely agree.

 

[Matthew_T]

My commute is along shared paths all the way. I do slow down for pedestrians and shout to them that I am approaching and on which side, so that I dont just wizz past them. However, if I have plenty of room ahead of me, I will get up to 20mph+. But I do slow down for peds.

As long as you give plenty of warning, the majority of peds will grab their dogs. If they dont (after they know you are there) then hitting the dog is the only option to teach them. Afterall, its one less dog for cyclists to worry about.

 

[Buddfox]

Not unreasonable to let your dog wander about on a path, shared or otherwise. If it had been a toddler, should he have been on reins?

For the record, I've never owned a dog.

Even when there's a sign saying dogs should be kept on leads? I'd be inclined to be less sympathetic to a wayward dog under these circumstances. One has to assume that the reason there's a sign saying dogs should be kept on leads is precisely to avoid an unfortunate incident with a bike, so you disregard that at your own risk. Oh, and please don't make the ludicrous comparison between a dog and a child, they are not even remotely similar.

That said, 15mph is clearly too fast for a shared use path, unless you're the only person on it.

 

[Sara_H]

My commute is along shared paths all the way. I do slow down for pedestrians and shout to them that I am approaching and on which side, so that I dont just wizz past them. However, if I have plenty of room ahead of me, I will get up to 20mph+. But I do slow down for peds.

As long as you give plenty of warning, the majority of peds will grab their dogs. If they dont (after they know you are there) then hitting the dog is the only option to teach them. Afterall, its one less dog for cyclists to worry about.

Well that's not very nice! And also worth remembering that if you crash into a dog, you're also likely to come off yourself.

Even when there's a sign saying dogs should be kept on leads?

Signs like that are akin to cyclist dismount signs. Do you take any notice of those?

 

[HF2300]

You have to be pragmatic about these things. There might be signs saying keep dogs on leads - there are on the shared use paths on my commute - but realistically some owners are going to let their dogs run free signs or not. Having an accident then moaning afterwards doesn't help you or the dog once the damage has been done, so why not be cautious & careful & keep the speed down.

 

[Tyke]

My commute is along shared paths all the way. I do slow down for pedestrians and shout to them that I am approaching and on which side, so that I dont just wizz past them. However, if I have plenty of room ahead of me, I will get up to 20mph+. But I do slow down for peds.

As long as you give plenty of warning, the majority of peds will grab their dogs. If they dont (after they know you are there) then hitting the dog is the only option to teach them. Afterall, its one less dog for cyclists to worry about.

Poor attitude to take. If an approaching car driver blew the horn then after you know they are there knocked you off to teach you a lesson would that be OK.

 

[Fab Foodie]

My commute is along shared paths all the way. I do slow down for pedestrians and shout to them that I am approaching and on which side, so that I dont just wizz past them. However, if I have plenty of room ahead of me, I will get up to 20mph+. But I do slow down for peds.

As long as you give plenty of warning, the majority of peds will grab their dogs. If they dont (after they know you are there) then hitting the dog is the only option to teach them. Afterall, its one less dog for cyclists to worry about.

Well that's pretty helpful .... speaking as an outsider Matthew, what do you think of humanity?

 

[I like Skol]

........... please don't make the ludicrous comparison between a dog and a child, they are not even remotely similar.

Small, unpredictable and unaware, I think it's a valid comparison in this instance.

There's an unwritten understanding between dog walkers and cyclists on that path. If I see a dog I'll slow and the owner will hold the dog and I'll go past with a "thanks".

Even when there's a sign saying dogs should be kept on leads? I'd be inclined to be less sympathetic to a wayward dog under these circumstances. One has to assume that the reason there's a sign saying dogs should be kept on leads is precisely to avoid an unfortunate incident with a bike, so you disregard that at your own risk.

The OP has already accepted that dogs are not really expected to be kept on a lead and he is happy to abide by this 'unwritten rule'. IMO the only dogs that should be kept on a lead in an environment like the path in question (and I know it quite well, was on there last Sunday morning while most of the world was still in bed) are dogs that are likely to attack other dogs or path users. well behaved but lively dogs are welcome to stretch their legs in my book.

 

[buggi]

ooo i read something in the CTC's magazine a few months ago. i think it's a bit of a grey area but there have been cases where the dog's owner was found to be negligent. maybe you scour their website for info?