Doping and Cheats

[gavintc]

gillan,

You present a very interesting argument about why doping has not been fought from within, tolerated and possibly accepted as the norm. But, as you state there does seem to be a change in the pro peloton, probably because the difference is starting to affect bonuses and pay.

 

[gillan]

i have more sympathy for pro cyclists than bankers and MPs, however all exhibit a sort of insider/outsider mentality

those from outwith cannot believe they (bankers) still want to pay and recieve bonuses and yet surely the very act of considering to do so exhibits a clear divide from any normal moral code. We got no bonus this year and I feel lucky to still haver a job

likewise MPS and the whole expenses/FOI stuff. I find it absurd what they get away with and yet they are fighting tooth and nail to stop us finding out. The rest of us have to provide receipts fot everything

Pro cyclists meanwhile act indignatly e.g. pantani et al during the 1998 tour because of the police. It wasn't that people were cheating (Festina) that they were upset about it was the police raids....that tells you something and sheds a not very nice light on that world

That may have been over ten years ago but look at valverde (just been pulled for puerto), rasmussen, vino, hamilton, basso, ullrich, heras, ricco, pieplo etc

these are the guys at the top of the of the sport

there's a long way to go yet

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Sorry tete, I don't get this. People cheat because they want to win and do not think they will get caught. If they are caught they should be banned for life. Apologies if that was unclear earlier, but I think it's simple.

Ah right, now it's me who's being unclear

Advocating a lifetime ban whilst at the same time stating that people cheat because they don't think they'll get caught doesn't follow any logic. For example, if I were a pro and truly didn't believe I'd get caught, I wouldn't give two hoots about the punishment - because in my mind it would never be meted out on me. It could be the death sentence for all I care because in this scenario, in my opinion I'd never get caught.

I'm of the opinion that a 4 yr ban would do, as that still kind of supports my view that as a civilised society we should allow for reform (I don't think that's the right word but I can't think of it at the minute, but you know what I mean), but would seriously enough jeopardise a cyclist's earning capacity and career. This increase in punishment plus the continued strengthening of testing (this is a given in any future model) would be pretty much all we can do to change things. Oh and mete punishments out to the teams, not just the individuals.

There should be leverage in naming and shaming too but that comes with its own problems.

I thought since you'd stated your position that it's only fair that I provide a perspective

 

[Tetedelacourse]

that might end up a very big team! Good idea though, I can't think of a better one at the minute.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

that might end up a very big team! Good idea though, I can't think of a better one at the minute.

they call it rock racing…

 

[gillan]

my previously mooted idea was that they have syringes on the arms of their team kit rather like rainbow stripres for ex-world champions. Then we all know they are an ex-doper, would focus a potential employers mind and give a commentator something negative to say when they were in a break etc

the key is to change the culture from within...

basic salaries lodged with UCI....rest of budget (including the whole amounts for however many years is left on agreement are used as anti-doping collateroll). 1st rider on team gets caught (as well as your 4 year ban) your team mates are on minimum wage for the rest of the season and your teams budget get's used to compensate the race organser for the bad publicity. 2nd they forfiet total budget.

Peer pressure may soon turn i think

 

[Dave5N]

basic salaries lodged with UCI....rest of budget (including the whole amounts for however many years is left on agreement are used as anti-doping collateroll). 1st rider on team gets caught (as well as your 4 year ban) your team mates are on minimum wage for the rest of the season and your teams budget get's used to compensate the race organser for the bad publicity. 2nd they forfiet total budget.

Yeah that's really going to encourage new sponsors into the sport.

 

[gillan]

it would focus minds

no doping no problem

a huge amount of pressure on the team riders not to dope

as opposed to recent years with a huge amount of pressure to dope

 

[John the Monkey]

Gillan, do potential employers (the teams) care?

Rock Racing seems to trade on the "bad boy" image of having ex-dopers ride for them.

Basso shouldn't have had a ride with a pro-tour team for another two years (background here). Liquigas pulled out of the voluntary agreement to double the penalties for convicted dopers in order to sign him. I'm beginning to think the key to it all may be to start punishing the teams. It does happen, after a fashion, with sponsors withdrawing from the sport, but that affects teams that don't (seem to) have problems too.