"Chicane-gate" and rider safety

[matticus]

Might be worth putting all this in one thread? Well, let's see ...
2 big news stories in a few days:
1 - Adam Hansen (CPA boss) has gotten the Paris-Roubaix people (ASO?) to put in a "chicane" before the entry to Arenberg. Due to this secteur of pave being particulary rocky, and having the highest bunch entry speeds.
Now I'm all for this. Lots of twitter bros saying "too scared? Don't ride!". oh dear.

2 - The crash on a descent in Spain. Well, it now looks more like multiple crashes - several riders came off on the same corner, but I don't think it was a domino effect.
This one seems less black-and-white; on the one hand, there were warnings about the descents on this race that many were aware of, but it's very tricky to put effective barriers etc on EVERY corner where this is likely to happen. Not sure what I think about this... meanwhile it's terrible for the injured riders, and as a spectator it's pretty much ruined the competition for Grand Tour wins this season (following on the contenders being decimated for Flanders/Roubaix) :-(

EDIT: Stolen from elsewhere, summary of the injuries in Spain (mainly to illustrate the magnitude of this):

Team updates as of 21:50 CEST:

UAE: Vine has broken three vertebrae, no other major injuries or head trauma.
Visma: Vingegaard has a broken collarbone and several broken ribs, but he is stable and will remain in hospital for now
Soudal: Evenepoel has a broken collarbone and scapula
Lidl: abrasions but no fractures or concussion for Tesfatsion
Total: Cras has a punctured lung, broken ribs and broken vertebrae
EF: Cepeda and Quinn involved, Quinn abandon
Bora: Roglic involved, no further updates (he was able to walk to team car)
Alpecin: abrasions for Hermans, who finished the stage.

 

[fossyant]

There are course notes and the riders know the tricky areas - all a bit namby pamby.

 

[T4tomo]

Pidcock also crashed out on a TT practice run in the Basque , no broken bones but bad leg injury WVA crashed the other day, collarbone fracture.

I'm not sure who of the GC guys was planning to start the Giro, but there could be a some reshuffling of the pack for some teams.

Clearly its quite some time until The Tour so plenty of recovery time ahead of that.

 

[T4tomo]

Whilst a decent idea to get a calmer entry to that traditionally fast entry section, its gone too far with that switchback if its as shown on SMedia, and potentially more dangerous. Its not the entry speed per se that's the issue, its coming from a wide fast road to a narrow cobble section. it may have been better to gradually narrow the approach road so the bunch gets thinner and longer on the road surface, rather than that process happening as they hit the cobbles

 

[matticus]

Whilst a decent idea to get a calmer entry to that traditionally fast entry section, its gone too far with that switchback if its as shown on SMedia, and potentially more dangerous. Its not the entry speed per se that's the issue, its coming from a wide fast road to a narrow cobble section. it may have been better to gradually narrow the approach road so the bunch gets thinner and longer on the road surface, rather than that process happening as they hit the cobbles

I think the switchback is entirely on tarmaced modern road? EDIT, ah I've re-read your post, I think I see what you mean now!

(plus the riders that discussed this were happy with a chicane/switchback arrangement. There should be a prettier road option next year - so basically 4 slighty faster 90' corners - but it's in disrepair at the moment!)

 

[cyberknight]

The switch back will just mean the carnage will be before the trench and everyone wants to be at the front before the chicane

 

[Dogtrousers]

Regarding Roubaix, I don't really have an opinion as I don't really have a clue what racing on cobbles is all about. I'm sure what they're doing is more sensible than anything I could suggest, even if it may not be optimal.

Regarding the Itzulia Basque Country crash. As you say, it's impossible to barrier every bend. I suppose a risk assessment might have got them to chuck in some straw bales or something when they saw that there were concrete ditches and boulders on the outside of a fast bend but I have no idea how effective they would have been. Probably not much use for Remco and the other rider who went off on a bit of unscheduled MTB-ing into the woods. But we don't really know what caused it. It looked like a slippy patch of road on the video. Some local riders have said that there are tree roots under the road there making little bumps in the surface, and requiring extra caution.

 

[T4tomo]

Regarding Roubaix, I don't really have an opinion as I don't really have a clue what racing on cobbles is all about. I'm sure what they're doing is more sensible than anything I could suggest, even if it may not be optimal.

Regarding the Itzulia Basque Country crash. As you say, it's impossible to barrier every bend. I suppose a risk assessment might have got them to chuck in some straw bales or something when they saw that there were concrete ditches and boulders on the outside of a fast bend but I have no idea how effective they would have been. But we don't really know what caused it. It looked like a slippy patch of road on the video. Some local riders have said that there are tree roots under the road there making little bumps in the surface, and requiring extra caution.

Just looked like a number of riders ran out of road, i.e were going too fast. what made it dangerous was the big drop off right at the edge of the road and random boulders that some hit. Horrific, but as you say you cant barrier / bale every bend.

 

[matticus]

The switch back will just mean the carnage will be before the trench and everyone wants to be at the front before the chicane

Well the riders proposed/agreed this solution. so there's that.

Also, lots of other races have slow corners at key moments. They don't have regular crashes.
The most famous one being on the Champs Elysees - possibly the most hotly contested sprint finish in the season. There is a hairpin corner where riders often put a foot down.

 

[T4tomo]

Well the riders proposed/agreed this solution. so there's that.

are you on a different planet to the rest of us?

it was very much a second choice compromise to to the CPA proposal, which will hopefully come into play next year

 

[matticus]

are you on a different planet to the rest of us?

Thankyou, caller!

From the Adam Hansen statement:

“I reached out to one rider on every team, or one of the directors. Some of the riders thought about it for a few days and with all the teams, they were happy with one of the three options. Two teams came back with six of out seven riders in support but the rest were all 100 per cent," Hansen added.

But T4Tomo, of team Cyclechat, is against the idea

 

[mjr]

What on Earth are they thinking??? In the real world, I've seen far too many crashes on chicane barriers. Taking them at racing speeds will be catastrophic unless a "patron" can dictate the approach or it isn't much of a chicane.

 

[cyberknight]

Well the riders proposed/agreed this solution. so there's that.

Also, lots of other races have slow corners at key moments. They don't have regular crashes.
The most famous one being on the Champs Elysees - possibly the most hotly contested sprint finish in the season. There is a hairpin corner where riders often put a foot down.

i hope your right , i dont want to see crashes at all .I am a pessimist by nature .
EDIT
cancellera has commented and is thinking along the same lines
https://www.cyclingnews.com/feature...cane-will-have-consequences-at-paris-roubaix/

 

[matticus]

Taking them at racing speeds will be catastrophic unless a "patron" can dictate the approach or it isn't much of a chicane.

It's quite a tight chicane. The "racing speed" will be rather less than the 70kph* they currently enter the cobbles.

*Cancellara, Apr 2024

 

[Dogtrousers]

There was no wrecks, and nobody drownded, and nothing to laugh at at all.