mr Mag00
rising member
- Location
- Deepest Dorset
slept through it
Dr Who - Christmas Special
- Thread starter fossyant
- Start date
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krushavik
New Member
- Location
- Warrington Cheshire.
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
Yes we all have colds but several of us are of type that easily gets caught up in the emotions of the characters
.
Black Sheep
Guru
- Location
- Rammy
She sang an arrangement of 'you shall have a fishy on a little dishy when the boat comes in'
Actually I have no idea.
Actually I have no idea.
JtB
Prepare a way for the Lord
- Location
- North Hampshire
I watched the first ten minutes and was so bored that I went off to do other things. Later when I asked the rest of the family how it was, two said it was rubbish and one had fallen asleep. Strange really because we've always watched (and enjoyed) Dr Who together, but I don't think anyone in my house will be bothering again.
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
It was... ok.
I say this as someone who has become a big fan of Who of late. I have all the box sets and have watched them more than once. RTD got a lot of stick, unfairly I think, because he was carrying on a legacy of Dr Who vs the Big Bad that was started back in the days of Terry Nation et al. There was some very, very fine writing in Series 4, and I don't mind admitting that I thought Tennant's final scene was, although somewhat self-indulgent, played to perfection.
Moffat's writing was brilliant during RTD's reign. Blink remains one of the finest episodes of Who ever, with Moffat's "timey-wimey" stuff kept in check by the insistence that crossing your own timeline is on a par with crossing proton streams. "That would be very bad, Ray."
In "The Waters of Mars" there was a moment in which the Doctor realised that, as the last of the Time Lords, he was the one who had the rulebook and so he could do whatever he wanted (except it didn't quite turn out the way he thought it would). It would seem that Moffat is taking that concept of him being the last of the Time Lords and running with it -- all that "time can be rewritten" stuff.
The problem with that is that he's using time travel as a Macguffin that renders the Doctor practically omnipotent. Time can be rewritten. Memories can be rewritten. What's to stop him doing anything at all? There are no fixed points in space-time that absolutely must happen -- there won't be another Pompeii for the 11th Doctor. It has gone a bit Bill and Ted, and while I enjoyed the bits of the series finale that showed parts of earlier episodes in a whole new light I did find the overall approach unsatisfactory. It felt like an alternate universe Doctor Who. It felt like fanfic.
This was particularly clear in the Christmas special. It was... meh. It didn't get the balance of kid-friendly but watchable by adults right, IMO. I didn't have a problem with flying fish so much as I had a problem with flying fish that were either freshwater fancies or a bloody great shark. I can suspend disbelief as long as a writer doesn't keep throwing incongruent details in my face, which is why the over-use of familiar things as a way of helping the audience identify with the story can be a major problem. There was also the issue that the crises faced by the Doctor in his new era of omnipotent time-rewriting are artificial, contrived and largely implausible; and therefore have artificial, contrived and largely implausible solutions.
I was really looking forward to it. I made it quite clear that we were going to watch it, whether everyone else liked it or not. I too fell asleep while it was on (and had to catch up on iPlayer). I haven't quite decided what to make of the shark that was a clock-eating crocodile in disguise, although I'll bet Michael Gambon didn't expect to be playing a romantic lead again any time soon.
There were good points and bad points about it. I loved Tennant's Doctor and was very sad to see him go, but I do like Matt Smith's portrayal, even though he hasn't yet quite showed the same dark depths and hint of danger that he needs to be believable as someone who can make entire armies run away.
Sam
I say this as someone who has become a big fan of Who of late. I have all the box sets and have watched them more than once. RTD got a lot of stick, unfairly I think, because he was carrying on a legacy of Dr Who vs the Big Bad that was started back in the days of Terry Nation et al. There was some very, very fine writing in Series 4, and I don't mind admitting that I thought Tennant's final scene was, although somewhat self-indulgent, played to perfection.
Moffat's writing was brilliant during RTD's reign. Blink remains one of the finest episodes of Who ever, with Moffat's "timey-wimey" stuff kept in check by the insistence that crossing your own timeline is on a par with crossing proton streams. "That would be very bad, Ray."
In "The Waters of Mars" there was a moment in which the Doctor realised that, as the last of the Time Lords, he was the one who had the rulebook and so he could do whatever he wanted (except it didn't quite turn out the way he thought it would). It would seem that Moffat is taking that concept of him being the last of the Time Lords and running with it -- all that "time can be rewritten" stuff.
The problem with that is that he's using time travel as a Macguffin that renders the Doctor practically omnipotent. Time can be rewritten. Memories can be rewritten. What's to stop him doing anything at all? There are no fixed points in space-time that absolutely must happen -- there won't be another Pompeii for the 11th Doctor. It has gone a bit Bill and Ted, and while I enjoyed the bits of the series finale that showed parts of earlier episodes in a whole new light I did find the overall approach unsatisfactory. It felt like an alternate universe Doctor Who. It felt like fanfic.
This was particularly clear in the Christmas special. It was... meh. It didn't get the balance of kid-friendly but watchable by adults right, IMO. I didn't have a problem with flying fish so much as I had a problem with flying fish that were either freshwater fancies or a bloody great shark. I can suspend disbelief as long as a writer doesn't keep throwing incongruent details in my face, which is why the over-use of familiar things as a way of helping the audience identify with the story can be a major problem. There was also the issue that the crises faced by the Doctor in his new era of omnipotent time-rewriting are artificial, contrived and largely implausible; and therefore have artificial, contrived and largely implausible solutions.
I was really looking forward to it. I made it quite clear that we were going to watch it, whether everyone else liked it or not. I too fell asleep while it was on (and had to catch up on iPlayer). I haven't quite decided what to make of the shark that was a clock-eating crocodile in disguise, although I'll bet Michael Gambon didn't expect to be playing a romantic lead again any time soon.
There were good points and bad points about it. I loved Tennant's Doctor and was very sad to see him go, but I do like Matt Smith's portrayal, even though he hasn't yet quite showed the same dark depths and hint of danger that he needs to be believable as someone who can make entire armies run away.
Sam
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
Snap.
In previous years, I've had the Xmas Day Dr Who as my one fixed TV point when at Mum's - or it must be recorded for me to watch later please (with toddlers about, it usually clashed with tea or bedtime). This year, I already didn't care enough to bother, having not really kept up with the last series (partly through being away or out quite often when it was on).
So I didn't even look to see what time it was on on Xmas Day, and then my b-i-l happened across the repeat on Boxing Day and we watched it, but...
I like Matt Smith - I want to like him because I don't want to feel I'm so shallow as to only like Dr Who when I fancy the Doctor. And he's got a slightly alien quality that should make him perfect. But I think it's gone just a little too far towards the kids' TV direction somehow - I can't quite put my finger on it, but... no. Maybe I just grew up and moved on.
Reiki_chick
New Member
- Location
- Bristol
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
He plays it extremely well. He has a faintly bewildered innocence about him which is very much a Doctor thing. He oozes the sort of intellect that Benedict Cumberpatch did so well in Sherlock. To get all fannish about it, there's a joy to this incarnation that suggests <nerd alert> the character is finally putting the Time War behind him. The 8th Doctor was a wreck, the 9th was still shellshocked, the 10th had been pushed to the point of depressed nihilism and the 11th is starting to enjoy himself again.
Smith is playing a Doctor who is old and kind and likes children because he has seen far too much of the destruction wreaked by adults who care more about what they don't have and would like to than they do about what they have already. He does that very, very well. What he doesn't do is that dangerous element, the malign glint that says an entity who is that old and has seen that much and been the sole survivor of wars encompassing the whole of time and space and who, on occasion, has routed entire armies armed with no more than a stick of celery, a piece of string and his reputation -- an entity like that isn't nice and kind all the way through.
That was made very clear in The Family of Blood and it was an aspect of the Doctor's character that RTD and Tennant did brilliantly. I worry that Moffat has forgotten that children's stories used to be just as horrific, if not more so, than adult ones. Fairy tales are dark and mysterious and scary. Doctor Who should be all that and more.
Sam
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
Agreed.
It's all about fancying Amy Pond from where I'm sitting
She's got incredibly lucky legs. I'd worry about breaking her.
Sam
slugonabike
New Member
- Location
- Bournemouth
Mr Slug laughs at me for getting emotional about TV shows etc, there was no chance of that with this episode as it left me cold. I tend to agree that the current doctor is just too nice, he needs that hint of danger and I think there's a real risk that even the kids will get bored with the current scripts. I must admit that I don't like the format of stand-alone episodes as much as a serial, there's no time to develop the characters or plot themes and everything can seem to be rather too trite for my liking.
I will also admit to being one of the miserable old so-and-so's who didn't think much of the TV in general over Christmas though.
I will also admit to being one of the miserable old so-and-so's who didn't think much of the TV in general over Christmas though.
PBancroft
Senior Member
- Location
- Winchester
I'm not so sure. Remember that one of the messages in this year's Christmas special was quite explicitly that sometimes people die, and that's OK. There is a darkness to him, but its almost as if the character is suppressing it. One episode last year had the Dream Lord force Amy to choose between false realities, not knowing that this character was actually the Doctor himself.
And Moffat does terrifying brilliantly - Time of Angels put a very nice spin on his own Blink (walking through the forest of Angels with your eyes closed...) - better than RTD ever did, IMHO.
What Moffat doesn't do well is containing his stories. As a whole, the last series was excellent, and fitting together the pieces of the picture is a treat. However individual episodes when taken out of context can seem a little weak.
