Driverless lorries,,,,

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John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
Interesting to see that the same issue, hacking into the system, has been raised.

Like the driverless cars "this wasn't possible". As a result it wasn't considered, for a second time with lorries.
I'd not thought of that, although it seems eminently possible. The more connected road vehicles become, the larger their attack surface, and so far manufacturers have not been speedy in updating the software/firmware in the vehicles.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
I'd not thought of that, although it seems eminently possible. The more connected road vehicles become, the larger their attack surface, and so far manufacturers have not been speedy in updating the software/firmware in the vehicles.
Google had their car hacked in America.
 

Brains

Legendary Member
Location
Greenwich
If only we could invent a system whereby a couple of people could move thousands of tons of goods from A-B and they could then be loaded onto smaller vehicles for delivery to their final destination, Even better if they travelled on separate routes to other vehicles and could be powered by electricity.

We have
They are called ships (or canal barges)
 

John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
Google had their car hacked in America.
Proof of concept stuff has been bubbling under for years, and lots in ordinary cars - manufacturers don't do simple things like separating the entertainment (and so outward facing) communications channels from the internal control stuff, so once you're in, it's possible to do some real damage - and they don't have any way to patch often enough to keep up with threats. Unless things have improved hugely since I last read up on the subject, it's likely to be an issue.
 

Brains

Legendary Member
Location
Greenwich
Ocean going ships, well yes (though crewed by more than two), but what barges can take thousands of tons?

They'd displace megalitres of water in the canal, and literally empty the locks. I think we would have to enlarge our canals to Panama depth and width.

Europe has managed to do it.
They started their canals after the UK, so had the benefit of seeing how not to do it
Napoleon came up with a standard lock size which is a lot bigger than ours, and there have been revisions since.
But 5,000 DWT barges are common in Europe, and could be in the UK as well, if we started on a 50 year program to enlarge them to European standards

Panama size though, I think is beyond what is possible in the UK, but many of our ports can take Panamax ships, and as no one on this island is further than 60 miles from the sea it means that (driverless) trucks can do the last miles
 

classic33

Leg End Member
Proof of concept stuff has been bubbling under for years, and lots in ordinary cars - manufacturers don't do simple things like separating the entertainment (and so outward facing) communications channels from the internal control stuff, so once you're in, it's possible to do some real damage - and they don't have any way to patch often enough to keep up with threats. Unless things have improved hugely since I last read up on the subject, it's likely to be an issue.
From a year ago
And not on a driverless car.
 
The RHA & FTA isn't too keen on the latest trials having been given the go-ahead. So who's backing the trials. The people pushing their technology or the companies that may use it?
Big national carriers would have most to gain, someone like Stobarts or any outfit with national distribution centres? Something like a platoon leaving a depot at the same time via motorway, then peeling off as individual loads get to their exits, then same sort of thing on the way back?
Same company would make it easier to organise lorries meeting up and forming the convoys. Would also save any complaints that the guy on the back in a different companies lorry is freeloading with his fuel savings
 
It is a totally illconcieved idea masquerading under the idea that it will cut pollution. As others have pointed out how do the lorries enter or leave motorway's also what happens if the convoy straddles traffic lights, one or two go through leaving the others either behind or continuing through red lights.
At the moment it is bad enough when a lorry pulls out in front of you to overtake on a motorway. Can you imagine what it would be like with a convoy?
What happens if the middle lorry breaks down or a tyre blows out?
How close are the vehicles going to be? At the moment they are showing such an idyllic scene where you could fit another lorry in between each lorry, I can't see that saving much aerodynamically..
Surely the lorries would have to be close otherwise throttle lag or braking would occur. The lead lorry having to accelerate to climb an incline whilst the following lorries are decelerating going downhill.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
That may be yours and my perspective, but I somehow doubt it will be the perspective of the car using - and voting - majority.
The people who use the cars are exactly the same people who walk and cycle - and their parents and their children. There is not a "car-using" population that is mutually exclusive from the "non-car-using" population.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
It is a totally illconcieved idea masquerading under the idea that it will cut pollution. As others have pointed out how do the lorries enter or leave motorway's also what happens if the convoy straddles traffic lights, one or two go through leaving the others either behind or continuing through red lights.
At the moment it is bad enough when a lorry pulls out in front of you to overtake on a motorway. Can you imagine what it would be like with a convoy?
What happens if the middle lorry breaks down or a tyre blows out?
How close are the vehicles going to be? At the moment they are showing such an idyllic scene where you could fit another lorry in between each lorry, I can't see that saving much aerodynamically..
Surely the lorries would have to be close otherwise throttle lag or braking would occur. The lead lorry having to accelerate to climb an incline whilst the following lorries are decelerating going downhill.
The biggest problem is the number of exit/entry points on the motorways. A fact that was behind the choice of the northern half of the M6 being chosen for the trial.

The gap is supposed to be too small to give anyone a chance of cutting through.
 

swansonj

Guru
The people who use the cars are exactly the same people who walk and cycle - and their parents and their children. There is not a "car-using" population that is mutually exclusive from the "non-car-using" population.
The majority I was referring to clearly also walk and may also cycle - but they prioritise driving (flag for crossover to "short driving journeys" thread). They will support further restrictions on walking and cycling on carriageways rather than see their right to make unimpeded progress as a motorist restricted.
 
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