Driverless lorries,,,,

[Markymark]

Then again, remove the eyes and ears from the cab and instead rely on electronics to see what is happening around the vehicle? How does that improve things for the most vulnerable road users?

Lack of antagonism, lack of tiredness, lack of 'not bothering to check', lack of distractions, lack of a human's inability to accurately measure distance and speed accurately, lack of 'not giving a fudge', lack of ability to break speed limits at will, lack of ability to drive into cycle lanes or through red lights at will...and I'm sure the Romans could give a few more examples.

 

[Globalti]

There's so much mis-information being bandied around by the supposedly intelligent folk here on CC. Actually it's no worse than what my car already does when I engage cruise control and it follows the car in front at a safe distance. It's called platooning and it's being promoted by Peloton Technology (cheeky choice of name there). Watch this rather smart video for a full explanation; on big empty roads I can see no problem as it's no different from what truck drivers are already doing - possibly safer in fact as the separation distance is greater than what we see every day. Gotta love the laconic finger-lift at the end:

https://peloton-tech.com/

 

[Deleted member 1258]

There's so much mis-information being bandied around by the supposedly intelligent folk here on CC. Actually it's no worse than what my car already does when I engage cruise control and it follows the car in front at a safe distance. It's called platooning and it's being promoted by Peloton Technology (cheeky choice of name there). Watch this rather smart video for a full explanation; on big empty roads I can see no problem as it's no different from what truck drivers are already doing - possibly safer in fact as the separation distance is greater than what we see every day. Gotta love the laconic finger-lift at the end:

https://peloton-tech.com/

Looks lovely on those wide empty roads, but how will it cope with our busy bonkers motorways? I think it's a great idea but how well will it work in reality?

 

[srw]

Oh right.... 'cos the road conditions in London and the US highways are so similar...

So how are they different? Both countries have a mixture of rural motorways with miles between junctions and busy congested city ring roads with short gaps between junctions.

Argument by rolly-eyed smiley isn't hugely logically sound.

 

[Globalti]

Like I wrote above, it's no different from what truck drivers are already doing and my car does when I'm on cruise control.

 

[srw]

I'm presuming you've been to the US..? Are you seriously suggesting that the roads in most US towns or cities are anything like those in London?

Curious. I thought the discussion was about US highways and UK motorways.

As it happens I was in Seattle last year, and, yes, the roads were just like London's, only the wrong way round.

 

[Salad Dodger]

I am genuinely confused about where the benefits of "driverless" lorries are.

The lead lorry will have a driver, in the normal way.

The following lorries will still carry a "driver" so they can react in the event of a problem occurring to the convoy. Those drivers will have to be qualified to drive an HGV, or else they wont legally be able to do their job. So the operating company is still paying the same number of drivers, all of whom will presumably have to record their "driving" hours on the tacho, so they will still have the issues about numbers of working hours and days without a break, just like the driver of the lead lorry. So, where is the saving in all this?

I accept that it might take up less physical roadspace if, say, 4 trucks are nose to tail along the motorway rather than being spaced apart in a conventional manner. But have you ever been held up by a lorry at 56 1/2 miles an hour trying to overtake another one doing 56.1 miles an hour? If the overtaker has got to get past a close running chain of 3 or 4 trucks, it will take several miles to complete the manoeuvre, holding up lots of other traffic in the process......

 

[Deleted member 26715]

This is being sold to Parliament and the public as being a 'green' initiative - running lorries like this improves fuel efficiency.

But the reality is in the long run its about costs. Having a convoy that is driverless, or where one driver controls multiple vehicles, means fewer drivers are needed - and vehicles can be driven for longer each day without the need for rest hours.

Doesn't this sound like a train.

 

[User482]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ruck-convoy-trials-get-uk-go-ahead-platooning

Great idea. Less fuel used, less congestion (because automated systems are better than humans at making use of scarce space), safer roads, lower cost deliveries. What's not to like? It's the first baby step towards fully autonomous driving which - for road vehicles - is the way forward.

If it becomes cheaper to deliver goods, then it's likely that we'll consume more goods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

 

[Deleted member 1258]

I am genuinely confused about where the benefits of "driverless" lorries are.

The lead lorry will have a driver, in the normal way.

The following lorries will still carry a "driver" so they can react in the event of a problem occurring to the convoy. Those drivers will have to be qualified to drive an HGV, or else they wont legally be able to do their job. So the operating company is still paying the same number of drivers, all of whom will presumably have to record their "driving" hours on the tacho, so they will still have the issues about numbers of working hours and days without a break, just like the driver of the lead lorry. So, where is the saving in all this?

I accept that it might take up less physical roadspace if, say, 4 trucks are nose to tail along the motorway rather than being spaced apart in a conventional manner. But have you ever been held up by a lorry at 56 1/2 miles an hour trying to overtake another one doing 56.1 miles an hour? If the overtaker has got to get past a close running chain of 3 or 4 trucks, it will take several miles to complete the manoeuvre, holding up lots of other traffic in the process......

I thought the idea was to develop this in the real world and iron out the bugs, once they get it sorted out surely they will be able to move to just one driver in the lead truck or no drivers at all.

 

[Markymark]

I am genuinely confused about where the benefits of "driverless" lorries are.

The lead lorry will have a driver, in the normal way.

The following lorries will still carry a "driver" so they can react in the event of a problem occurring to the convoy. Those drivers will have to be qualified to drive an HGV, or else they wont legally be able to do their job. So the operating company is still paying the same number of drivers, all of whom will presumably have to record their "driving" hours on the tacho, so they will still have the issues about numbers of working hours and days without a break, just like the driver of the lead lorry. So, where is the saving in all this?

I accept that it might take up less physical roadspace if, say, 4 trucks are nose to tail along the motorway rather than being spaced apart in a conventional manner. But have you ever been held up by a lorry at 56 1/2 miles an hour trying to overtake another one doing 56.1 miles an hour? If the overtaker has got to get past a close running chain of 3 or 4 trucks, it will take several miles to complete the manoeuvre, holding up lots of other traffic in the process......

Because this is not the end game. It is not even close. This is a trial but I think it is more about a start on getting the public used to the idea of autonomous vehicles. Yes it is a convoy on a motorway but the technology is there for it to be on London's busy roads. They will get to that slowly but surely.

And I don't buy that London's roads are unique. It's the same lazy argument I hear from taxis and van drivers why cyclists shouldn't be on the them.

 

[Globalti]

Absolutely. This is just the beginning of the process; the Government is already wringing the last possible capacity out of our congested roads by introducing smart motorways, which use exterior signalling to encourage drivers to bunch up close. It's only a matter of time before all cars have the "follow me" technology that executive cars already have and from there it's only a short step to cars taking control of speed and distance away from their drivers in congested areas.

 

[swansonj]

Clearly, the existing proposal is simply to trial this technology on motorways. But I do indeed think that autonomous or heavily-assisted lorries offer a pathway for improving the present lamentable safety situation in towns.

And no, I don't see any intrinsic difference between London and the cities in the US where the technology is being tested.

Driving a lorry in a city is basically a task beyond the capability of one person to do safely. If we are not willing (a) to stop driving lorries in cities or (b) put a second person on the task, then making much more use of technology looks like a pretty good bet to me.

 

[cuberider]

Has anyone bothered to work out how many jobs will be lost if it takes off?

 

[Drago]

Which is more important? Reduction of road slaughter, or jobs for string vest wearing Yorkie munchers?