Driving in the snow

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GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
Well I'd prefer people erred on the side of caution. Ideally by not going out on the roads at all under snowy conditions, but if they have to then I prefer the ones going unnecessarily slow to those going too fast. The reality is that the last two or three years have been very unusual, for most of my life learning to drive in snow isn't something most people have ever had any need for, there have been hardly any opportunities to practice so I don't really think it is reasonable to expect the majority of drivers to suddenly become skilled at it. Those who want compulsory skid pan training etc, I'm afraid that is largely pointless. Skills based driver training hasn't been shown to be a particularly effective road safety intervention, not least because it doesn't deal with attitudes and can lead to risk-compensation (as a recently returned forummer from Cheltenham will no doubt recall from previous discussions on P&L ;) ).
People who are very average drivers in very average cars in normal conditions remain very average drivers in atrocious conditions when they choose to make what they think are their 'essential journeys'. What the flip is essential on a Sunday morning?
 

brokenflipflop

Veteran
Location
Worsley
Update: I'm going to the Coop to get 2 packets of jelly babies (buy 1 get 1 free). It's only about 450 metres away but it's cold so I'm taking the Audi. I'll report back any issues/incidents. P.S. I'm also getting Auntie Hilda a birthday card...I've included this info just to add weight to the necessity of the journey. Wish me luck.:hello:
 

Linford

Guest
Well I'd prefer people erred on the side of caution. Ideally by not going out on the roads at all under snowy conditions, but if they have to then I prefer the ones going unnecessarily slow to those going too fast. The reality is that the last two or three years have been very unusual, for most of my life learning to drive in snow isn't something most people have ever had any need for, there have been hardly any opportunities to practice so I don't really think it is reasonable to expect the majority of drivers to suddenly become skilled at it. Those who want compulsory skid pan training etc, I'm afraid that is largely pointless. Skills based driver training hasn't been shown to be a particularly effective road safety intervention, not least because it doesn't deal with attitudes and can lead to risk-compensation (as a recently returned forummer from Cheltenham will no doubt recall from previous discussions on P&L ;) ).

I think we can all agree that the most effective weapon in the arsenal of road safety is improvements in the construction of vehicles (most people dying on the roads tending to be the occupants of them). The down side of this is the improvements to the structure creating massive blind spots in the vision, and consequentially a lot more SMIDSY's.

From my own experiences of driving in less than perfect conditions, are that less is more, and if any value of self teaching or tuition is of value, is that you do learn to respect the mass and how much of an irresistible force that which inertia is when rolling around on a slippery gradient.

Risk compensation is obviously going to be an issue, but then that will probably be more of one where they might have learned to only respect a variable condition in a controlled environment. I did get caught out last year on a sheet of solid ice/compacted snow (maybe 3" thick) - rolling up to a junction and tapping the brakes lightly to experience a total lock up, and whilst I didn't hit anything, did experience an uncontrollable skid which absolutely gave me a sense of mortality and put my feet firmly on the ground as to what I must consider to be a speed and required stopping distance which is commensurate with the mass of the vehicle in these conditions (I was absolutely kacking it by the time I stopped)

If you don't ever experience this 'oh F*@%' moment in the course of your driving, how can you respect or fear it !

I'd also go further on by saying that all pilots have to practice for the eventuality that they will lose power, or control of their machines (chopper pilots especially), and they are required to give so many hours a year to retain the pilots license doing powerless landings. The value is obviously there, and the cost to the pilot is substantial to keep this experience current. Can you not see the parallels in this and vehicle control on the roads where there are a lot more things to go wrong in terms of terrain, other users in proximity, etc on the roads ?
 

Linford

Guest
That Gilera takes me back, remember the Garelli tiger cross?

I do. The owner of the Bultaco had one as a road bike (we were kids at the time). He must have seized it up about once a week. It went like the clappers though for a 50cc bike :thumbsup:
 

col

Legendary Member
I do. The owner of the Bultaco had one as a road bike (we were kids at the time). He must have seized it up about once a week. It went like the clappers though for a 50cc bike :thumbsup:
It was one of the quickest mopeds then, even outrun an ap50 when they came out, not the best reliability thyough.
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
It was one of the quickest mopeds then, even outrun an ap50 when they came out, not the best reliability thyough.

How I coveted my mate's Garelli in Darlington in the seventies. Several of my mates had them and they blew away the opposition until they broke down. An area known as Five Arches in Harrowgate Hill was the regular off-road stomping ground of teenagers with off road mopeds
 

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
I never have a problem with my £750 car. It's luxurious inside, loads of gadgets, meccanoesque to repair and has proved 100% reliable. TBH I only use it when neccesary, which is rare but it's nice to have when it snows. ^_^

jeepsnow.jpg


you have a 4x4 that makes you a baby eater :laugh: , according to some on here.
my XJ (Cherokee) was one of the best cars i have had for the snow. although that said my 190 Merc with fat tyres and low suspension didn't perform too bad. I suppose its all down to how you were taught to drive in the snow. most soft southernrs down here have no idea. mrs Sub and I both being from rural N Wales learnt at an early age how to drive in the snow in a "normal car"

didn't drive yesterday, had no reason too. went out on the bike and when i got to where i needed to be the missus and kids were there and we built a snow sheep
 

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Linford

Guest
How I coveted my mate's Garelli in Darlington in the seventies. Several of my mates had them and they blew away the opposition until they broke down. An area known as Five Arches in Harrowgate Hill was the regular off-road stomping ground of teenagers with off road mopeds

His shed was like Bert Munro's (out of Worlds Fastest Indian) with all the broken pistons lined up. He actually was pretty handy tuning 2 stinks, and I did clock him at once 65 on an AP50 which he bought after the Garelli. It was actually a lot more reliable than the Garelli.
It has all moved on now. The weakest part of the Garelli was hotsports in the barrel and combrustion distorting them and causing them to seize up. The modern liquid cooled engines with their water jackets can be built to much tighter tolerances.
 

Linford

Guest
People who are very average drivers in very average cars in normal conditions remain very average drivers in atrocious conditions when they choose to make what they think are their 'essential journeys'. What the flip is essential on a Sunday morning?


I saw a couple of roadies riding up the big hills yesterday as well as a few hill runners, and did consider this to be a good question.if I were ever to get into a conversation with them - Is your fitness levels going to suffer that much that you risk life and limb (and possible exposure) on sheets of ice on the windswept hills when you could run in the valley where there was none ?
 

yello

back and brave
Location
France
I too would prefer for people not to make unnecessary journeys but who decides what is necessary? Given that some do (for reasons necessary or otherwise) then I would like to think they were driving well within their comfort zones, even if that's slower than others might like. I certainly wouldn't want them intimidated by other drivers.
 

Linford

Guest
I too would prefer for people not to make unnecessary journeys but who decides what is necessary? Given that some do (for reasons necessary otherwise) then I would like to think they were driving well within their comfort zones, even if that's slower than others might like. I certainly wouldn't want them intimidated by other drivers.

A very good point - I think we can all be far to quick to stand in judgment of the actions of others. If not reckless actions actually endangering lives or property, then is there really that good a reason to stick ones oar in !
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
I too would prefer for people not to make unnecessary journeys but who decides what is necessary? Given that some do (for reasons necessary otherwise) then I would like to think they were driving well within their comfort zones, even if that's slower than others might like. I certainly wouldn't want them intimidated by other drivers.
When it's in averse conditions I'd much prefer to follow a car doing 5mph even though I feel it's safe to be doing maybe 20mph than follow someone doing what I feel is a comfortable speed but is beyond the capabilities of their skill & vehicle. Doing the latter is likely to mean I'm the person who ends up standing around for an hour or so after scooping up the pieces when they slide off the road.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
I differentiate between those who know what they are doing and are driving appropriately for the conditions and those who don't know what they are doing and so crawl along far slower than in necessary.
It's hard to do that as an observer. You have no idea of limitations & miss givings of the person at the wheel. I'd prefer to make very slow but steady progress over no progress because someone's been over confident.
 
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