Dutch speed limits on cycle paths

[ebikeerwidnes]

Just talking about doing it at the moment
looks like 20 kph - which is about 12 mph for us in the UK

which would be slower than I normally do on a clear path

but if there are other people around then seems OK
(other than "proper cyclists" on drops and all that - clearly)

the thread i saw it on was from "a popular website" and lots of people were saying it is too slow and should be at least 20 mph
which is "interesting"

any comments

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

On a dedicated cycle only path, 12mph limit sounds too low to me.

On a shared use path, I could see the merit of a 12mph limit.

Do all cyclists in Holland have to use a device that shows their speed, that they can see while cycling? How on earth do you enforce this limit, especially for ebikes, which I presume have been locked to a legal motor assist limit of ~25kph?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

On a dedicated cycle only path, 12mph limit sounds too low to me.

On a shared use path, I could see the merit of a 12mph limit.

Do all cyclists in Holland have to use a device that shows their speed, that they can see while cycling? How on earth do you enforce this limit, especially for ebikes, which I presume have been locked to a legal motor assist limit of ~25kph?

The speedois part of teh problem
Where I saw it everyone was saying everyone has a phone so they can just use Strava

which is just wrong - "a lot of people" and "everyone" are not the same thing

clearly a speedo is not a massive expense if you go for a cheap one
but it is an imposition
and who judges whether or not it is accurate and if someone "gets done" for doing 25 kph - if they say the speedo was saying 12 how does the Law deal with it?

 

[Drago]

I expect they want to keep the speed differential between pedestrians and bicycles fairly sensible.

Which begs the question as to why, if its such a clever idea, why don't they do the same on the roads to slow cars down and reduce the speed differential between them and bicycles?

 

[Dogtrousers]

It would unlikely to be enforced.

All it would do is give people another thing to moan about. "Bloody cyclists, breaking the 12mph speed limit.

As for justification, and measurable safety improvement - forget about it.

By the way, the question of whether a bike has a speedo, which often crops up when speed limits are discussed, is irrelevant to enforcement. You don't have to have one ( it might be handy, that's all). All that really matters is whether the person doing the enforcing has a measuring device. There were speed limits for cars before speedometers were invented.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Is it the trial in a town outside Utrecht OP is refering to? from back in June

Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists​

...
The government has started a two-week trial in Houten, near Utrecht, to gauge whether freedom-loving Dutch cyclists are willing to slow down – and whether they have any idea how fast they are going in the first place.

This summer cycling/camping in NL I raised the trial with other (Dutch) cyclists and few seemed aware and none particularly concerned (though numbers I discussed it with were low compared to numbers cycling and a self selecting group eg no carbon framed lycra clad speed merchants, etc.). My impression was people are far more concerned about the "Fat Bikes" (what I'd call electric motorbikes with token pedals) often ridden badly by staggeringly young children.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I expect they want to keep the speed differential between pedestrians and bicycles fairly sensible.

Which begs the question as to why, if its such a clever idea, why don't they do the same on the roads to slow cars down and reduce the speed differential between them and bicycles?

They could reduce the speed limit in towns to 20 mph

surely no-one could complain about that!!!

or to put it another way

Gallent leihau'r terfyn cyflymder mewn trefi i 20 mya yn sicr ni allai neb gwyno am hynny!!

(if that makes no sense - blame Google Translate
although I am aware that Welsh has some "challenges" for translating!!!)

 

[annedonnelly]

Many towns in Scotland are imposing 20mph limits too (I know Wales did a few years ago). I've taken great pleasure today in sticking to the 20mph limit when the driver behind was keen to exceed it - at least judging by how close to my bumper he was.

There does seem to be a good proportion of drivers who observe the limit though.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yeah, 20 mph zones are appearing round here as well in England. It is good to see.

 

[Drago]

It is good to see.

Nooooooooooo! Its war against the motorist!!!

I love the way the media say that as if theres only one motorist in the country.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Nooooooooooo! Its war against the motorist!!!

A war so dramatically unsuccessful, that more than 42 million driving licences are now held in the UK. Significantly increasing every decade.

 

[mjr]

A war so dramatically unsuccessful, that more than 42 million driving licences are now held in the UK. Significantly increasing every decade.

And the UK motoring force kills 7 pedestrians a week on average, while killing about 20 of their own. No real war would last this long with such a high rate of "friendly fire" incidents. Why is the UK motorists' war on walking allowed to continue? Why are they still so successful at recruiting? Maybe a 15mph speed limit trial like the Dutch cycle path one should be considered(!)

 

[classic33]

Is it the trial in a town outside Utrecht OP is refering to? from back in June

This summer cycling/camping in NL I raised the trial with other (Dutch) cyclists and few seemed aware and none particularly concerned (though numbers I discussed it with were low compared to numbers cycling and a self selecting group eg no carbon framed lycra clad speed merchants, etc.). My impression was people are far more concerned about the "Fat Bikes" (what I'd call electric motorbikes with token pedals) often ridden badly by staggeringly young children.

Haven't they already introduced rules on tire width. 3" maximum on cyclepaths.
Above that width, and what you're riding is automatically placed into a different classification.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

People I talked to didn't raise that. Just universal "they should be stopped" across both keen cyclists and general public.

But the extent of my knowledge is seeing what's happening on the cycle paths and talking to dutch people about it.

I didn't see any of these "fat bikes" (electric motorbikes with pedals) not using cycle paths. Quite a few very young kids riding what I'd regard as unsafely ( couldn't keep straight line, not pulling into their side of path for oncoming cycles, etc).

 

[Pat "5mph"]

On a dedicated cycle only path, 12mph limit sounds too low to me.

On a shared use path, I could see the merit of a 12mph limit.

Tbh, I haven't ever seen a cycle path dedicated only to bikes here in Glasgow, the nearest we get to them are bus lanes, sharing with buses and taxis too.
Segregated paths on road are always shared with bus stops, or parallel to pavements, plenty of pedestrians straying into the cycle bit.
12mph seems fair.

Many towns in Scotland are imposing 20mph limits too

Sadly not enforced in my neck of the woods.
Plenty of aggressive driving even in traffic calmed streets

I didn't see any of these "fat bikes" (electric motorbikes with pedals) not using cycle paths. Quite a few very young kids riding what I'd regard as unsafely ( couldn't keep straight line, not pulling into their side of path for oncoming cycles, etc).

You mean like our food delivery bikes?
Are young kids riding them? Seems dangerous!
Here teens can be seen riding those bikes on the road, face hidden because they know it's illegal - face also hidden because they are up to no good lol