Edinburgh Commuters, your views need on the 20mph proposal

[Virtual DBP]

that may be the case HLab in towns or cities with adults, but as a parent of 3 kids and as a cyclist myself who lives in the bay, i can honestly say that reducing the speed to 20mph wouldn't suddenly make me decide to make the kids cycle to school (as its not the speed of cars that means they get the bus)

 

[HLaB]

that may be the case HLab in towns or cities with adults, but as a parent of 3 kids and as a cyclist myself who lives in the bay, i can honestly say that reducing the speed to 20mph wouldn't suddenly make me decide to make the kids cycle to school (as its not the speed of cars that means they get the bus)

No measure works on its own but it is a step in the right direction. A lot of schools produce travel plans to try and encourage folk to travel more sustainably and you can't really make that feasible unless you create the correct environment.

 

[fimm]

There is a well know connection between speed and accident crash rate in built up areas, where the speed limits have lowered (and enforced) there are far fewer accidents crashes. If you look at maps of where the KSI occur the arterial routes do stand out, so lowering the speed limit on these routes could significantly reduce the rate of KSIs. It also make life more pleasant for people living along these arterial routes, I used to live in the Wardlaws, so I ken just how miserable Gorgie Road can be. The current trial on the Southside, will be taken city wide within a couple of years, so it is important that they get it right.

Never heard them called "the Wardlaws" before.
I was thinking about this while I was cycling down the A70 (Lanark Road) yesterday evening. I was trying to imagine what it would be like at 20mph, especially the bit between the bypass and the Water of Leith which currently has a 40 limit - it is a good downhill, and at 20 I'd have to watch my speed... I'd be able to sit in the traffic. Higher up (Currie area) I guess you'd get fewer impatient overtakes (oddly enough it seems to be worse going downhill than uphill - I suspect I'm going so slowly uphill that it is easier to go round me).

Then there is the Gorgie Road. This morning getting out of my road took a few minutes, but that was just traffic. You do get the odd impatient person and I suppose it would slow them down. Would you want the 20 limit on the Calder Road further out? That is a proper dual carriageway and I don't see that the 40 there is inappropriate...

I found my reaction to this interesting - my initial thoughts were "oh but that means I would have to go slower" - and this is from someone who doesn't own a car and cycles a lot!!

This is the only place I've seen anything about this - is there stuff on the Edinburgh City Council website? (I suppose I should just go and look myself!)

 

[Theseus]

I found my reaction to this interesting - my initial thoughts were "oh but that means I would have to go slower" - and this is from someone who doesn't own a car and cycles a lot!!

Fimm, as a cyclist the speed limits don't apply to you. They are only applicable [1] to motorised traffic.


[1] OK, they do apply in a few locations such as the royal parks in London to all traffic, but not on the roads we are talking about.

 

[HJ]

Its been realised by the Government (both Scottish and UK) that the best way to encourage people to cycle is to reduce speeds on existing roads and provide a more pleasant environment; rather than producing new cycle lanes, check out LTN2/08 or Cycling Scotland's hierarchy when it comes to road provision.

Umm what is LTN2/08?

 

[HJ]

This is the only place I've seen anything about this - is there stuff on the Edinburgh City Council website? (I suppose I should just go and look myself!)

There are links from here and I try to explain so of the rational for reducing the speed limit to 20mph, not least of which is reduction in road casualties which will lead to a cost saving to the NHS.

 

[HLaB]

Umm what is LTN2/08?

LTN2/08 is a 1/4 of the way down the page, its a

joint DfT publication with the Scottish Executive and the Welsh Assembly Government. Primarily aimed at local authority transport practitioners, it brings together and updates previous guidance on cycling provision in a single and comprehensive guide.

 

[fimm]

There's information on the City Council website here including postal and email addresses to contact.

 

[Virtual DBP]

if its all about saving lives, then why bother in the bay. lived here 20 years and i've heard of 1 person being knocked down (which wasn't a child)

 

[HLaB]

if its all about saving lives, then why bother in the bay. lived here 20 years and i've heard of 1 person being knocked down (which wasn't a child)

The Bay is an easier place to start for instance but its not just about saving lives directly (although thats a valid point too) its about also making a pleasant environment that encourages people to travel more substainably. When I was younger I felt the Bay was pretty severed in places by Moray Road. The Bay is based on the classic street design of the era which folk higher up are realising was a mistake and they're trying to fix it. The recent Scottish Goverment Policy Document 'Designing Streets' outlines this paradigm shift.

 

[Virtual DBP]

we must live in alternate universes then HLab because the bay is a pleasant environment to walk or cycle.

yes moray and a few others are long road but folk don't hoor about the place ...and even if they did a few traffic lights would fix it.


<edited to say that as i grew up on Leith Walk, maybe i'm coming from a different starting point. if you're only used to a quite wee place, then your bar might be set different>

 

[HLaB]

we must live in alternate universes then HLab because the bay is a pleasant environment to walk or cycle.

yes moray and a few others are long road but folk don't hoor about the place ...and even if they did a few traffic lights would fix it.


<edited to say that as i grew up on Leith Walk, maybe i'm coming from a different starting point. if you're only used to a quite wee place, then your bar might be set different>

I didn't say place of the Bay arent a pleasant environment, I said

was pretty severed in places by Moray Road

which might be OK for some folk but creates a barrier for some. Its hopefully changed now but there didn't seem to be much community interaction between both sides of the road when I was younger. I'm not saying its about speed (thats a separate issue) but creating a enviroment that is pleasant and welcoming to all, traffic lights don't do that.

Perhaps Leith Walk is worse (I've not seen it for years, because all of the tram works ;-) ) but if you have to start somewhere the Bay is a bit more self contained and a softer target. Edinburgh is quite small also compared to other cities I've lived in, which visa versa are probably all small compared to other cities, its a relative thing; it doesn't change the fact that some roads create barriers to communities.

 

[MrGrumpy]

if its all about saving lives, then why bother in the bay. lived here 20 years and i've heard of 1 person being knocked down (which wasn't a child)

Well not lived here quite as long as yourself, but the link road, and Moray Way can be race tracks, I`m all for 20mph zones, why should you not?? Yes I agree the Bay is a nice area to live and walk around in, but the school runs are ridiculous, the amount of cars travelling to school is crazy. Possibly part of that is modern life, when I was a lad, of course only 1 car per household, mostly and you walked to school!! Nowadays both parents work normally, so school drops form part of the working day. On the subject of buses, there are kids over by letham who get a bus to Donibristle?? Its no exactly far!

 

[HJ]

Why do the kids take the bus? Because, their parents feel that is too dangerous to let them walk or cycle, that is why we need 20mph limits, as they do in many other countries on the mainland of Europe. Then we might get away from having the fattest, most miserable, children in Europe...

As an adult, I am used to mixing it with the traffic, but even so I would welcome the introduction of a 20mph limit as this would mean that drivers would have more time to look about them on busy roads. Most accidents crashes on urban roads are because drivers can't cope with the information flow in the busy urban environment at speeds of up to 30 mph (or more). Lower speed limits make it safer and more pleasant for everyone.