Elecric Horse(men)?

[Richard A Thackeray]

The new Mustang looks like a real live-wire.......


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50460241


Also looks a hell of a lot, like a Tesla Model 3

 

[Drago]

Except Ford know how to make cars and control costs. Watched a recent documentary where some car production experts dismantled a Tesla. They were gobsmacked at how inefficiently manufactured is was - for example, an inner wing was 3 separate pieces of metal elaborately bonded and pegged together. A comparable item from virtually any other manufacturer would be a single stamping. The only bit they found remarkable was the motor, which they reckoned was half a decade ahead or anyone else. Tesla's market advantage of being first isn't going to carry them a great deal further in the face of increasing competition from manufacturers with a century of mass production and cost control experience.

 

[Smudge]

Looks great.

 

[Electric_Andy]

It looks nice, but not like a mustang. If it were me, I'd have styled it around the Mk1. But I suppose everyone wants SUV style things now which are huge

 

[icowden]

@Drago - Yep Tesla's days are surely numbered. They only produce around 22% of the worlds lithium batteries for use in their own vehicles, with plans to increase that to 60%. 15% of worldwide EV sales in August were Teslas and if you exclude China the figure is much much higher (China has huge EV incentives and companies are churning out terrible EVs as quickly as they can for the Chinese market). Of course there may be inefficiencies in their production, but remember that Tesla built their production from scratch. They don't buy in bulk pre-made parts such as seats for example.

The most important bit is that Tesla are way ahead of the game. Anyone who likes EVs wants a Tesla. Anyone who wants self-driving wants a Tesla. Tesla have millions of miles of data on self-drive. The Ford might be a great car, but it's a bit like a company that used to make 1960s mainframes trying to quickly shift to building smartphones. All of their mass market processes are designed around constructing ICE cars, not computers on wheels. Ford are also behind BMW, Nissan, Volkswagen, Hyundia, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Renault, Volvo, Chevrolet etc. They are very late to the party so they need the Mustang to be a really great car.

They have the resources to catch up, but their market is very much the people who want to buy cars the old fashioned way at dealerships. Nissan was way ahead of Tesla in the affordability stakes, but very few people aspire to own a Leaf. Model 3 sales are through the roof and Model Y pre-orders are stacking up.

I also think there is a risk for manufactures in that there may be a pivot in the relatively near future where instead of buying an EV, you just request one on demand. After all, if the car can drive itself, why spend a fortune to leave it on your drive way for 22 hours a day? Again, Tesla will be way ahead due to the work they are putting in to achieving Level 5 self driving.

Finally, an important distinction for a lot of EV lovers is that Tesla's mission is not to build great cars or make profits. It is to advance the world's transition to sustainable energy.

 

[icowden]

Just read that article by the BBC. The claim that infrastructure is the main reason for poor take up of EVs in the UK seems ludicrous. Is it just possible for example that the reason Norway is at the top of the table is that in Norway , all-electric cars and vans are exempt from all non-recurring vehicle fees, including purchase taxes, and 25% VAT on purchase? In the UK the best we can do is a £3,500 grant.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Whoever called that ugly heap of shyte a Mustang wants shooting.

 

[chriswoody]

That large touchscreen looks like a great way to distract the driver, delving through multiple menus trying to set the heater controls or turn the radio on. There are laws against using mobile devices in a car for a reason and then manufacturers go and stick these bloomin great things in.

Electric vehicles in general make me really annoyed, a bloody great greenwash is all they are. Where do people think all the lithium, cobalt, nickel etc comes from? the magic element tree? There's massive ecological and social damage from the extraction of these materials, not to mention the disposal costs when they die in a few years. We need to reduce the need for vehicles, not produce cars like these that increase desire for a massive environmentally damaging mode of transport.

 

[Shadow121]

Yes, Tesla do loose out a little in the assembly process, but that will be easily addressed
and a whole lot cheaper than what it will cost the others to catch up in the electronic
control and battery departments.

I think though there is a consensus regarding there simply not
being enough materials of the type used in EV ‘s to even replace the existing
cars on the road, never mind allow for growth.
And when we our old cars are finally legislated off the road and the uptake
of EV’s soars, the national grid wont be able to keep up with the electricity
demands, given that the upsurge in crypto mining caused many state suppliers
to ban the container loads of computers used from connecting to the grid,
now they are tiny demands compared to what will be required for EV ‘s.

I think the EV will bring a lot of problems and associated cost to our doorsteps.

 

[icowden]

Which is why Tesla are also developing Solar Tiles and Powerwalls. Once your whole roof is generating power you reduce your draw on the National Grid, even in poor weather.

 

[keithmac]

I would genuinely only consider a Tesla if we had to go for an EV.

 

[Venod]

The claim that infrastructure is the main reason for poor take up of EVs in the UK seems ludicrous.

I don't think it's ludicrous at all, if we had all the cost advantages you mention that Norway benefits from, our lack of infrastructure would still slow the uptake of EVs.

 

[Drago]

Yes, Tesla do loose out a little in the assembly process, but that will be easily addressed
and a whole lot cheaper than what it will cost the others to catch up in the electronic
control and battery departments.

I think though there is a consensus regarding there simply not
being enough materials of the type used in EV ‘s to even replace the existing
cars on the road, never mind allow for growth.
And when we our old cars are finally legislated off the road and the uptake
of EV’s soars, the national grid wont be able to keep up with the electricity
demands, given that the upsurge in crypto mining caused many state suppliers
to ban the container loads of computers used from connecting to the grid,
now they are tiny demands compared to what will be required for EV ‘s.

I think the EV will bring a lot of problems and associated cost to our doorsteps.

They lose a vast amount of efficiency, not just through the assembly process but through almost the entire design of their vehicles, which are I'll suited to mass production and with unnecessarily complex structures (the inner wing stuck in my mind as a very graphic example, but little failures like that were repeated right through the design). Without redesigning the entire range and restructuring the assembly process they won't make ground on that, and neither of those are easily addressed.

They are losing ground, and will continue to do so, to manufacturers who understand cost control, quality control and mass production.

 

[MichaelW2]

Aston Martin have just announced their uber SUV, this one is for the ladies apparently, with plenty of lady features. Seems to be peak Internal Combination Motorcar.

 

[icowden]

They are losing ground, and will continue to do so, to manufacturers who understand cost control, quality control and mass production.

There are a couple of interesting articles on CleanTechnica which look at why this might not be the case...

cleantechnica.com/2019/11/18/is-the-mustang-mach-e-a-ford-killer/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/18/reviving-the-tesla-deathwatch-with-a-totally-different-spin/
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/20/tesla-competition-deathwatch-the-history-of-atari/

The gist of the first article is quite interesting. It hinges around the idea that if the Mustang is successful, Ford could see a huge drop in sales of ICE cars which would affect its ability to manage is's $100 billion global debt in terms of ICE assets.

The second two articles look at other sectors where there was major change - the downfall of Kodak and Atari amongst others. There are no successful carriage builders who became auto manufacturers. It is therefore not a given that the iCE auto manufacturers will be able to survive changing to electric which is more akin to building a robot smartphone than a car.