etape Caledonia on an HPV SMGT

[Scoosh]

+1. On my local 'quick' hill (now with new road chippings ), with slight left after bump near the bottom, the Grasshopper (full suspension) just follows the road, the Trice (rear suspension only) tries to take off over the bump (so I have to aim inside the apex to stay roughly on-line) and the Raptobike (no suspension)shakes my eye balls so much I can barely see where I'm going.
Cycling up the hill is, of course, another story

Very interesting and useful comparison there, squeaker

Is the Rapto's

shakes my eye balls so much I can barely see where I'm going

because it is so much quicker then the others you can't see the bump/bend until you are on top of it ???

 

[PalmerSperry]

Is the Rapto's because it is so much quicker then the others you can't see the bump/bend until you are on top of it ???

Or because it's so fast that you can't see the bump/bend until after you've passed it?

 

[arallsopp]

Or because it's so fast that you can't see the bump/bend until after you've passed it?

On the soft tail Furai, the surest way to spot the bump is generally from a stationary point, 40 yards down the road, with your eye as close to the tarmac as possible. Infact, I've been working on my 'speed dismount' for this very purpose, and have been known to combine it with an exercise in ad-hoc wheel building.

Actually, that's only happened once, and to be fair, I got only raspberries for my efforts. Given it was a 35 mph dismount, an upright would have been far worse.

The only other scary time was when a pot hole took out my front tube mid descent behind Mista Preston on a steep country lane. We were doing 30 something, and suddenly I couldn't steer or brake without inviting the tyre to leave the rim. Hairy, but manageable.

I rode the full suss SMGTe a while after that.

 

[Fiona N]

I'll second the suspension I'd hate to ride a recumbent bike round our roads without front suspension.
My first summer with the Speedmachine showed just how useful it can be when I was out on a ride with a neighbour putting his new Trek road bike through it's paces. We headed off on a circuit we both use pretty often and which has an absolutely fantastic section of undulating twisty back road that starts with a fast downhill. This section has two gentle 'sleeping policemen' (aftermath of drainage pipes placed under the road) then there's a very fast beautifully cambered lefthand corner which ramps steeply uphill. If you keep off the brakes, momentum will take you up without changing down. On the Speedmachine with front sus, the sleeping policemen are trivial and I don't slow at all for them which meant I went into the corner a couple of seconds ahead of Kev. To my horror, on the apex of the corner, directly on the line I was taking, there was a large deep pothole which I hadn't seen until I was well into the corner because of the wall. The SpM hit the pothole, thunked the sus, then carried on with a bit of a wiggle. I shouted but was too late, Kev also hit the pothole and went over the bars as the front of the bike stopped dead despite the bigger 700 wheels. Fortunately he wasn't badly hurt - mainly gravel rash and dented pride - but the front wheel was pringled.

 

[squeaker]

Is the Rapto's because it is so much quicker then the others you can't see the bump/bend until you are on top of it ???

Nope: if anything the Rapto's max speed is marginally less than the 'Hopper's (less weight, more rolling resistance on bumpy roads?). It coasts down further on the roll out, though

 

[arallsopp]

I'll second that. Assuming reasonably open roads (rather than the stop start commute) my SMGTe is just as fast as the much lighter Furai. Takes more effort to climb on (which I guess is just the weight really) but tends to descend faster too. Assuming the hills aren't too steep or plentiful it all averages out to the same speed, but the SMGTe is harder going.

When I realised I'd spend entire days dragging the bent up and down hills (cumbria, northumberland, scottish borders, midlothian and back) the Furai became my preferred choice. I was generally on the brakes for the descents anyway, so this was the better choice.

If I do it again, will I use the Furai? Probably not. The SMGTe? Maybe... Some new Zockra lowracer? Oh, yes please

Lessons learnt. Nil.

 

[squeaker]

Suspension up-hills

Takes more effort to climb on (which I guess is just the weight really)

Not totally convinced that it's just the weight, as I think the suspension also soaks up a few watts. IIRC someone on BROL fitted either a platform or lockout rear shock to a Grasshopper and found climbing faster - might depend if you mash or spin, though.

 

[Riding in Circles]

Not totally convinced that it's just the weight, as I think the suspension also soaks up a few watts. IIRC someone on BROL fitted either a platform or lockout rear shock to a Grasshopper and found climbing faster - might depend if you mash or spin, though.

Suspension does sap a little bit of power, I have ridden all sorts being a dealer and just prefer non suspension bikes/trikes.

 

[arallsopp]

You might both be right there. I can only compare the SMGTe to the Furai, and both have a suspended rear.

I am confident that the suspension on the SMGTe doesn't generally compress under pedalling though. Mine needed a little TLC after the winter slush, and developed a sharp squeak whenever the rear triangle pivoted. Every little bump sounded the noise, but not spinning up hills. Under hard acceleration I could bring it forth, but only when mashing.

I think it probably did wonders for my pedalling technique

 

[Alf]

That's my experience too. I am pretty sure my Grasshopper suspension doesn't move when I pedal. My Seiran SL seems faster to me (one day I will do some timed runs to check) but if the impression is accurate, I think it's because it is several kilos lighter and has bigger wheels (559 or 571, depending on the tyres I want to use) so less rolling resistance.

 

[mcd]

An interesting thread - apologies for clumping replies because I've not been here for a while:

Stupid Question Alert:
Is it a daft idea to do the Etape Caledonia (81mi road race) on an original HP Velotechnik Street Machine GT, a big steel framed fully suspended touring recumbent.

I rode the first Etape Caledonia on my SM GTe without any problems (apart from a bad headset repair coming undone during the ride). Got the usual chuckles, accusations of cheating and complaints about lack of available draft (all light hearted). So if you can handle it on the hills, and keep in the minimum average speed, you'd be fine.

I saw 1-and-a half 'bents on the Etape on Sunday.
The 1 was a drop-dead gorgeous M5 Carbon High Racer (I think), light as a feather and the wheels had been changed from carbon rims to alloy - to be a bit more comfortable over the 81 miles.

'Twas mine - and a very perceptive guess about wheel selection. Last year I did it with a tub'ed disk wheel - too stiff for comfort on the south side of Loch Rannoch! It is a very nice light bike, though the feeling of lightness wears off after a while, at least until I re-set my weight perception with a ride on the SM! LeeW was also there this year.

Suspension does sap a little bit of power, I have ridden all sorts being a dealer and just prefer non suspension bikes/trikes.

I've only got extensive experience with two contrasting bikes when it comes to comfort & weight - but I'd agree with arallsopp about the lack of compression of the SM suspension under pedaling. I reckon that greater efficiency through improved road contact (eg no wheel spins after speed bumps) and reduced effort by the rider in absorbing shocks would make up for any imperceptible power lost in the SM's suspension.

Oh, and just a quickie on suspension. Given you can't de-weight a bent, suspension can be very useful up front for ironing out potholes that suddenly spring out from under the rider / vehicle / obstacle in front.

While you can't de-weight a recumbent, if yer on one without suspension, the impact can be reduced by pushing yourself up the seat (or raising hips if position is more horizontal) just before pothole/bump. You're effectively using your body to absorb the shock, and making it easier to let the bike move underneath you - just as you'd do on a diamond framed bike.

Good to see this bit of the forum is still active - looks like there's more people than ever doing it in comfort and style. Enjoy!

 

[arallsopp]

While you can't de-weight a recumbent, if yer on one without suspension, the impact can be reduced by pushing yourself up the seat (or raising hips if position is more horizontal) just before pothole/bump. You're effectively using your body to absorb the shock, and making it easier to let the bike move underneath you - just as you'd do on a diamond framed bike.

Must say, I've wondered about this for a while. I've always been a bit worried that going toes and shoulders on a bump would just increase the stress, as doing so effectively channels your weight onto opposite ends of the frame. The boom looks awful spindly on the Furai...

Result is, I tend to do the reverse, sitting up away from the seat back, and lifting my feet within the cleats. The flex of leg and stomach muscles seem to absorb some of the knock at least.

No idea of the science behind it though, so very good to read your first hand experiences.

 

[Scoosh]

'Twas mine - and a very perceptive guess about wheel selection.

'Twas you I spoke to after I had registered on the Sat - and requested a weight test of the bike (graciously permitted ).

I admit 'twas not my observation about the wheels - 'twas that of your ladee friend who was telling me while you were distracted by (yet another ) enquiry.

What was your time for the Etape ?

 

[mcd]

I remember - good to meet you again (extends virtual handshake)!

My time was a shade over 4 hours - better than the 4:30 I was expecting given the (lack of) training. Legs were hurting big time towards the end! It would have been a shade under 4 hours but my stem snapped - just a bit toooo much weight shaved off that component. After a few moments of inspecting the new ventilation in my assoss shorts and looking at the stem thinking HTF do I fix that, I managed to bodge a repair and carried on. Other than that, it was a great ride - will be back next year!

And yourself - how did you get on?

 

[Riding in Circles]

I think the SM is one of the better designs for rear suspension if I recall, the requirement to avoid squat and power loss os for the drive side of the chain to pass through or below the suspension pivot line, not all have this. I still prefer no suspension though. Everyone has their own preferences, I know people who prefer suspension and I can see the attraction on heavier machines as it makes them feel like lighter machines to ride.